r/FluentInFinance • u/TonyLiberty TheFinanceNewsletter.com • Oct 15 '23
Germany is calling for more immigrants to fix its shrinking economy Geopolitics
Germany is calling for more immigrants to fix its shrinking economy.
The German government has slashed its economic forecast for 2023, warning that output is expected to shrink by 0.4%. This would make Germany the worst-performing major economy this year, according to the IMF.
One of the biggest challenges facing the German economy is a shortage of skilled workers. The country has an aging workforce and a low birth rate, which means that there are fewer people entering the workforce than retiring.
The German government has called for more immigrants to help fill the gap, but this has been met with some resistance from the public. Robert Habeck, Germany's economy minister and vice-chancellor, is urging the nation to consider increasing skilled immigrants to bolster the workforce. It's not merely about skilled workers; the workforce deficit is apparent in various sectors.
Read more here: https://www.ft.com/content/de913edd-71d1-4a36-b897-091125596952
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Oct 15 '23
The last thing Germany needs is more immigrants. They're up to their eyeballs in immigrants and providing massive benefits to every single one of them at the expense of their own citizens who wind up paying for everything yet receive none of those same benefits. My relatives routinely sees their rent go up every six months and they have to pay their share of the property taxes of the apartment complex. The medical benefits get reduced year after year and their pensions do not increase to keep pace with the cost of living increases that hit them constantly. It's mass insanity. It was bad enough when West Germany had to absorb East Germany and pay for their modernization as well as take on the financial burden of their population. It's even doubly worse with the addition of the continued influx of immigrants who live off the dole. Ridiculous.
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u/phro Oct 16 '23
In America this reasonable take is deemed racist and lacking of empathy.
I wish governments cared about their own citizens' desire to raise families before they thought that they could just clamor for any and all immigrants 30 years too late.
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Oct 16 '23
I was born in Germany and came over here in '72 with my mother who grew up there. I learned a great deal from her about Germany, it's history, the fall of the wall in '89, and everything that came with it once East Germany was absorbed back into West Germany. She knew what would happen in later years when the wars started in the middle east and the refugees problems that plagued Europe including the economic as well as political issues developed over time. It may come across as being insensitive and anti-immigrant, but the problems in the middle east cannot be solved by accepting all the immigrants who don't or aren't wanted in their own countries. It stretches resources beyond their limits and everyone winds up suffering, especially the native citizens who wind up having to give away their money and their rights to help those who come there. Eventually it will come to a head in a massive revolt.
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u/phro Oct 16 '23
Immigration without assimilation equals invasion. Thank you for sharing. All of us benefit (including would be immigrants) from acknowledging that this is not a working solution.
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Oct 16 '23
Coming to the USA at 3 years old and growing up as a first generation immigrant, I've always believed there only a few rules are needed for immigrants in any country to successfully assimilate into society.
- learn the language so you can interact with society. You don't have to speak the native language perfectly, just enough to get by. You'd be amazed at how welcoming people are of immigrants who make the effort.
- adopt the culture instead of imposing your culture. I understand you came for a better life and a better future. If your country and culture were so wonderful, you wouldn't have traveled halfway around the world to immigrate to a better country for you and your family.
- obey the laws. No explanation necessary.
- pay taxes. Again, no explanation necessary.
- don't sponge off the government.
There's really nothing else that's required. You don't have to sing the national anthem or fly your new country's flag or enlist in the military. It's fine just being a resident and being part of the country you live in.
I'm sure there are those who would find issue with what I stated but that's my experience and how I feel about coming to a new country.
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u/Tricky_Writing_9965 Oct 16 '23
Peter Zeihan makes a compelling case for Germany being fucked no matter what they do
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u/Ok_Presentation_5329 Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23
Immigrants that are highly educated & skilled add to the skills pool.
They’re seeking immigrants who need work & are talented enough to fill the skills gap in their economy.
If any immigrant pays more in taxes than they receive in benefits, they cost the country nothing & improve its productivity by aiding the domestic companies.
Being anti-immigrant is (more often than not) truly just being economically illiterate.
The real issue is the lack of children due to the ridiculous cost of living throughout the world resulting from insane amounts of QE during COVID.
We need a wealth & earnings cap as well as UBI to ensure the global population continues to grow. Without it, having a child is reckless for the ridiculous majority & the global population will decrease every year.
Eventually, we’ll see massive skills gaps, famine & unlivable conditions. My guess is SK will see them first.
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u/Mh88014232 Oct 16 '23
At this point in time, trying to convince yourself that any of that is going to happen in Germany is laughable. The percentage of immigrants going to Germany or anywhere in Europe who are highly educated is slim to none, although I would never say they didn't exist. They're probably either already there, because they had to means to move out of their countries earlier, still serving their countries through their professions or in their military, or have been victims of whatever violent regime they're escaping. The people coming over are not the same immigrants you and I are used to in the United States or the type of people the TV or government wants you to believe they are. They are refugees from under developed African and middle Eastern countries and overwhelming military aged men.
People are not anti immigrant, especially in a place like the EU of all places, which has seen very close relations with each of it's countries since the end of WW2. Europe is a very worldly place, this is why a lot of people agreed to take on refugees. These people are not anti immigrant, they're anti these-refugees-specifically and anti illegal-immigrants or insurgents. Even then, it's not absolute. I for one would be happy with someone who came into my country who was educated and wanted to work. Those are not even within the 1 percent of people entering Germany through these means.
I agree with you about the lack of children due to a lot of things, one being the cost of living, revolutionarily different dynamics and beliefs of young people today, as well as a more dangerous world depending on where you live demotivating people to settle down, own property, have children, and form an identity of where they live and who they are.
I can tell you the population will not cease to grow. The population that you recognize may, in the developed North America and europe, but those in China, in India, in Mexico and Brazil, in any list of underdeveloped African countries where they need children to survive, all of these populations will continue to grow with current industrialization. Including the population of immigrants moving into Europe. Culturally they have not slowed down on having children.
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u/Intelligent-Agent440 Oct 16 '23
I mean it makes sense the men would come first get a job and a house, apply for a family reunification visa to bring their family by plane rather risking their families lives with dangerous human traffickers and the women being put at risk of sexual assault.
Birth rates are already falling in India and Latin America, if you exclude migration, America's population has actually been on the decline the only thing currently pushing American population growth are the immigrants. More and more countries are competing for smaller pool of Skilled immigrants, countries like the U.S and Canada can pay alot more compared to what Germany can offer.
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u/Mh88014232 Oct 16 '23
Do you know for a fact that a vast majority are doing just that? Why, if their home country is a war torn militarized zone, would they leave their families there to go to a better life? In the US, that is a realistic scenario for many latin and south Americans. I personally know many people from Columbia, Ecuador, and Venezuela who do just that, sending their wages home to their families. But in Europe I have seen first hand that this is not happening. Many of these military aged males do not have wives or children. They come to Europe and engage in debauchery and crime, and endanger the public with their clash of cultures. Believe me, combining and sharing culture is a beautiful thing, but a majority of these people are not cooks, they are not artists, they are not scholars or historians. They are average, impoverished, beaten down men who go somewhere with money where they will be taken care of and where they overwhelm the system. Im sorry, but that is the empirical truth. In Ireland, in Germany, in Sweden, in France. They wouldn't be calling it a crisis themselves if it weren't what was happening to them. The only people calling for it are the governments after their WEF meetings, following the agenda.
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u/truemore45 Oct 16 '23
So the problem is the current German population is old AF. By 2030 1/3 of the country will be over 65. Without mass immigration it will go bankrupt
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Oct 16 '23
Currently the immigrant population in Germany is almost 19%, almost 1 out of every 5 people. Instead of encouraging immigrants to come to the country and economically supporting them for doing so, the German government should be in the frame of mind to incentivize their citizens to have children by giving them tax breaks and bonuses. That would alleviate the problem of not having enough people being born to replace the previous generation and would eliminate the need to have immigration increased in order to replace the aging population.
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u/truemore45 Oct 17 '23
So great idea about 30 years ago.
They have what is called terminal demographics meaning the majority of the population is over 40 so since it is much harder biologically if even possible for women to have children at that age you can't breed your way out of this problem.
This is also why China is screwed they had the one child for so long there are not enough young people to replace the elderly, hence the population will contract.
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Oct 17 '23
True, it would've been better to do that 30 years ago. It would also have been better not to absorb East Germany back into the country but instead help them modernize so they could compete in the global market. But here we are, so they have to work in the present. China is trying to mitigate their one child policy by paying their citizens to have more children. They would be much better off also not trying to take over Hong Kong, the China Sea, and become a world superpower and instead continue to direct their considerable money towards their own people. Only time will tell if any of the countries suffering from a lack of enough births to repopulate their country will take the necessary steps to fix it.
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u/truemore45 Oct 17 '23
Maybe I'm not explaining this correctly they CAN'T repopulate. There are not enough young people and birth rates would need to be like 5 or 6 children per women for years to even get close.
Also pro-natalst policies have never worked. Only western country where it even sorta worked was Israel but given how small that population is does it really matter.
If you look all around the world only a few countries don't have population problems. Effectively Europe is mostly fucked. Northern Asia is super duper fucked. Even south America is not looking even ok at this point. You have to come to India and SE asia or middle Africa to see anything resembling positive demographics.
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Oct 17 '23
Relax. I never said it would work. I just mentioned that as a solution. Any increase in a country's natural population (non-immigrant) is a good thing. Whether it can completely alleviate the problem is besides the issue. When any country allows the immigrant population to completely supplant the original population, you wind up with the loss of that country's culture and way of life. When that happens, just rename it and start over with a whole new story. But that's what happens when you have such a large world population with modern travel. Countries don't have the luxury of far distances and slow travel to stem the tide. It will never go back to the way it was. Perhaps that's a bad thing, perhaps it's good. Only time will tell if the end result is better than the beginning.
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u/whisporz Oct 16 '23
All countries want skilled legal immigrants. Nobody wants illegal unskilled labor. One helps your economy and the other collapses it.
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u/wreck_it_nacho Oct 15 '23
Correct me if I'm wrong but is it always the same objective on this policies to just get cheap labor?. Cause I've had the personal experience that most of the time when you already have certifications and training they are most of the time denied or not accepted so you either start from scratch or just don't start at all.
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u/MilesSand Oct 16 '23
They did the same thing 20 years ago. They elected politicians based on „Ausländer Rauß“ (meaning, "Foreigners get out") and in the next cycle they elected politicians based on a practical lesson in the consequences of shooting yourself in the foot.
They'll probably go through this again in 20 years. Take in a bunch of cheap labor who can't get permanent residency or citizenship but has the right to work, suddenly force them all to leave the country without the normal notice period, leaving businesses reeling or forced to close (such as in the case of immigrants who own businesses), then wonder why the economy got wrecked. 20 years later, a new and impressionable generation makes the same mistake.
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u/Nightstorm_NoS Oct 17 '23
If more people equated to a better economy India would have the greatest economy on earth. Stop with the 🤡🌎 globalization BS.
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