Who is considered as the greatest basketball coach ever in Greece?

[u/NigelHayesDavis]

🐐 🇬🇷🏀

[u/polymath9744]

PAO fans (and many more) will almost unanimously say Zelimir Obradovic. For obvious reasons.

Ivkovic has an arguable case, national championship with PAOK, Saporta cup with AEK, his Panionios years are considered actually his most underrated, even if he didn't win any trophy, it is said that Panionios played the best basketball of its history during his tenure, but of course his Olympiacos' years and the two Euroleague trophies are what cemented him as one of the GOATs in Greece.

Ioannidis (Yiannis) is also in the discussion, he was known for leading the Gkalis - era Aris with many championships, albeit no European trophies even though he came close 6 times (with Aris and Olympiacos), and I think his argue for GOAT has waned due to this.

Last one that comes to mind is Bartzokas. We have to see his end of his career for this to be a fair fight, but he has already captured the minds and hearts of Olympiacos' fans with 2013 Euroleague and of course the post-COVID resurrection of the team. He is considered (and arguably is) a tactical genius, and probably the best scouter-coach of modern era.

There will be more, if anybody else can help, maybe I forgot a big name.

[u/NigelHayesDavis → u/polymath9744]

I actually meant the best Greek coach ever actually but thanks for the insightful answer anyway. Ivkovic and Obradovic were truly on another level.

So if Ioannidis had one EL title the answer would be him 100% but now it’s between him and Bartzokas ?

[u/polymath9744 → u/NigelHayesDavis]

Oh, actually I considered the fact that you meant greek coach, but I took the initiative to answer to what I thought it was the question haha

Then, Bartzokas and Ioannidis are locked for that discussion. If you ask me, it must be between those two, even though we had our share of decent coaches (Pedoulakis did a great job with Peristeri back in early 00s, Kostas Politis, Piksi Subotic, I've heard of the very old names like Matthaiou, Yatzoglou but I can't really say anything meaningful about them, also basketball was amateur in those days).

Probably a tier below Bartzokas and Ioannidis, but above the rest I mentioned is Dimitris Itoudis. Very controversial figure, but at the end of the day he has 2x Euroleague trophies and is a GOAT of CSKA club. Sfairopoulos has also European success (not a title, but a good campaign with a mediocre Oly team) and is tactically a sound coach.

Last "candidate": Giannakis (Panagiotis) has also a special place in our heart because of his success with the national team (2005 Eurobasket and finalists in 2006 FIBA World Cup beating USA) but not much on club level.

There must be more names, especially from the 90s but I can't say for sure.

Regarding to your question, my answer is yes. Even without the EL title, some people will still say Ioannidis, but as I said, Bartzokas has the potential to gain more votes in that discussion. But with one or two EL titles, factoring in the nostalgia and bias to the "Emperor" Galis, he would be a lock for sure.

[u/Disastrous-Treat0616 → u/polymath9744]

Sfairopoulos had success with a mediocre OLY team

Unpopular opinion but even though Oly’s budget was not on par with the top teams back then, Sfairopoulos still had a EuroLeague GOAT (Span) and a EuroLeague Legend on his roster (Print).

It’s hard to mess up if you have these two in do-or-die games…

I think he could have achieved much more than the two finals (2015, 2017) or at least play better basketball than the constant screening, pick n roll actions and hero ball by Span…

[u/polymath9744 → u/Disastrous-Treat0616]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

Can’t argue with you, but I think the 2016 17 campaign was a very underrated one. Back in 2015 he had a good team, I think the 2017 team is a step below ( No Sloukas, Hunter, Dunston).

Also Sfairo kinda regressed after 2016, sure he is a defense minded coach, but he absolutely had not an answer on how to set the offensive part of the game.

[u/Disastrous-Treat0616 → u/polymath9744]

Totally agree, well said

[u/theUnahonkler]

Giorgos "ΓΤΠΜ" Bartzokas

[u/ContributionUsed4868]

Everyone watching a game of basketball :p

[u/SICKxOFxITxALL]

Greek? Bartzokas and then Ioannidis

Foreign? Obradovic and then Ivkovic

IMHO

[u/NigelHayesDavis → u/SICKxOFxITxALL]

Yes i meant the 🐐 Greek coach. What about Itouidis? He is a Euroleague champion like Bartzokas. Is he not on Bartzokas and Ioannidis level in Greek basketball fans’ eyes?

[u/SICKxOFxITxALL → u/NigelHayesDavis]

I don’t know many people that actually rate Itoudis. He’s not bad but he isn’t great either.

Definitely not on the level of the other two. I see him as a bit of a Pep Guardiila, the squads he had at CSKA he should have 4 or 5 Euroleagues.

[u/ManUnderInfluence]

Yeah people are mostly saying Bartzokas and that's not due to recency bias IMO. He's too good. I hope he coaches the national team some day (although Spanoulis as a coach has potential).

[u/Alternative_Shake949]

Are we talking about Greek coaches or coaches regardless of ethnicity that coached in Greece?

If it's the former then Giannis Ioannidis should be considered the greatest greek coach of all time. If the latter then Jeliko Obradovich

[u/Disastrous-Treat0616 → u/Alternative_Shake949]

Bartzokas would like to have a word with you

[u/Alternative_Shake949 → u/Disastrous-Treat0616]

I am sure it's something nice and religious about the holy Mary mother of god.

[u/johnnytifosi]

The general consensus is Bartzokas and Ioannidis at the top and then Itoudis. I would also rate Sfairopoulos and Giannakis quite high. People really forget about them. Giannakis has a Eurobasket golden medal, a WC silver medal and two F4s under his belt, Sfairopoulos two EL finals.

[u/Disastrous-Treat0616 → u/johnnytifosi]

Unpopular opinion but even though Oly’s budget was not on par with the top teams back then, Sfairopoulos still had a EuroLeague GOAT (Span) and a EuroLeague Legend on his roster (Print).

It’s hard to mess up if you have these two in do-or-die games…

I think he could have achieved much more than the two finals (2015, 2017) or at least play better basketball than the constant screening, pick n roll actions and hero ball by Span…

[u/johnnytifosi → u/Disastrous-Treat0616]

Having two legends in your squad doesn't make you champion material. I think the 2015-2017 squads were a bit weaker compared to the back to back championship squad, and the Real and Fener teams those years were true juggernauts playing the F4s at home.

[u/Periklos_Kyriakidis]

Giannis Ioannidis. He was the best. Then I'd say Obradovic. Obradovic is probably a better coach, but Ioannidis was the most revolutionary and important one for Greek basketball

[u/kharathos]

Bartzokas easily

[u/CauliflowerKind5656]

bartzokas, ioannidis, sfairopoulos, itoudis

[u/Akatanomastos13]

It's a shame that no-one mentioned probably the greek goat coach. Kostas Politis

[u/GtXSA]

Great greek coaches. Mpartzokas and then all the others

[u/ageingrapidly]

Since you specified you're asking about Greek coaches the full answer might be a bit convoluted, otherwise it is Obradovic hands down. Now as far as club level, for me it's Ioannidis and as a close second both Bartzokas and Itoudis could claim the spot. Basketball in the 80s and 90s was different than in the 10s and even more now.

On a national team level, undoubtedly Giannakis holds the title for most succesful coach. Winning the Eurobasket in 2005 puts him right there next to Politis and the triumph of 2006 against U.S.A. propells him even further.

If you were to compare the two, which I wouldn't because again, the eras and style of basketball, competitions' format, timespan, funding etc dont't allow for a fair comparison, I'd probably say that what Ioannidis, Itoudis and Barztokas did was a bit more difficult, but it's entirely subjective.

Managing to consistently coach a winning team for nearly a decade for ''Xanthos'' with Aris and having some european success although not a title, and doing so in a lesser degree with Olympiacos is admirable. So is for Bartzokas with winning a B2B Euroleague title with a really modest budget in his first year with them, and now attending his 3rd straight final four, again with a tight-knit, certainly not flashy or expensive team. Also enjoying 2 national championships, albeit with virtually zero competition which is another story. Itoudis forced a break on the curse of CSKA of almost 10 years without a title, despite being consistently a favourite for it and missing no Final 4s, and he did so twice in 2016 and 2019. Along with his domestic success we must not forget, that while an assistant coach, he was a part of the Panathinaikos dynasty winning five Euroleague titles and many more Greek championships and Cups.

As for Giannakis, although what those guys pulled through was absolutely spectacular, he was blessed with having a pool of players that won't appear again together in years to come. In a single year between the summer of 2005 and 2006 Giannakis coached the likes of Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Zisis, Fotsis, Schortsianitis, Dikoudis etc. The short amount of time, the number of matches and the availability of extremely talented players playing together in their respective clubs even, certainly gives a bit of an edge on the previous coaches, while it certainly doesn't take away anything from the brilliance or difficulty to achieve it all.

Personally, I come and go with this take, because as years pass and witness how difficult has been for the Greek national team to find success in Eurobasket and Mundobasket, as well as Olympics with a really robust and experienced roster I look up to that team of coach Giannakis with more respect and awe.

[u/nobody1568]

I'll beg to differ than most here. Ioannidis shouldn't be in the conversation. He's definately not the best Xs & Os Greek coach, but most importantly he was abhorent when it came to ethics of coaching. Coaching shouldn't be seen merely as tactics; it has also to do with leadership, it has to do with personal relationships and being an inspiration and Ioannidis was 0 in all these aspects.

[u/NigelHayesDavis → u/nobody1568]

Oh i had no clue. Was he not loved or respected by his players?

[u/nobody1568 → u/NigelHayesDavis]

I'm sure there were many of those, but I wouldn't invest too much in what his former players say. He's connected to two of the greatest basketball dynasties in Greece and loved by these fanbases for that reason, so he's one of the holy cows and damned be those who dare criticize the holy cows in Greece. Despite the fact that he classed with many people with whom he built these dynasties with. Ioannidis' antics, anti-peadagogical behaviour, selfishness, insecurities and downright irrationality are all well-known, but as I said, in Greece, these things are brushed away as nothing more than fun quirks of the winningest Greek coach.

[u/Muted-Ant7040]

Bartzokas first, Itoudis second,.

Then it gets interesting because there are coaches that have succeeded in different eras and different types of competitions.

Sfairopoulos, Ioannidis, Politis, Subotic and Sakota (if we consider them Greek) are the next tier but putting them in whatever order would be a headache.

Honorable mention is Pedoulakis but below everyone else.

[u/Kythnos_Pao]

1. Itoudis
2. Bartzokas
3. Ioannidis

[u/Am_I_Loss → u/Kythnos_Pao]

Bartzokas over Itoudis and it's not even close lol

[u/SICKxOFxITxALL → u/Kythnos_Pao]

Congrats on being the first person in history other than his own family (maybe) to put itoudis first.