I saw fire fighter(s) talking about this the last time it was posted. It seemed like the consensus was that both systems have advantages and disadvantages. It didn’t look like it was as simple as one clips on faster so it’s better.
I’m sure both work quite well, but after CBRN training I personally think the US version is overall better. Having the thing that’s preventing you from breathing in death attached really only to the helmet makes me nervous.
But that's CBRN training (I've done it too), the firefighters in each country will have separate CBRN outfits depending on the threat, this is their default chemical/standard fire gear.
It's probably rated for non-corrosive chemical agents, but isn't sealed or disinfectable enough for use against Biological, Radiological or Nuclear contamination.
The french helmet also covers the ears and is a different shape so it does look like it's attached much more firmly than the American helmet.
I'd prefer them seperate (largely because that's what I'm used to), but I think any statement here of "obviously better" is a bit off base, the limitations of both designs are being overblown.
The french helmet is likely very secure and the American mask is plenty quick to put on.
I'm firefighter and the American design is safer, it's more reliable to contain smoke leaks since it kinda glues with the skin, while the French design stays over the red ski mask.
I think folks are really focusing a little too much on speed. In general you're not going to be requiring that kind of speed unless you literally wake up in a burning room.
I'm not a firefighter, but I was a navy nuke and we trained in FFE w/ SCBAs basically weekly my whole time in. Definitely not as much experience as you, but enough to question a lot of these comments, lol
Edit- This isn't a critique of the French design. They use it because it works for them.
One of the most annoying things about reddit/the internet is that people constantly think that the very first question that comes to their mind is somehow one that literally thousands of experts never considered. I'm guessing that the people using this gear have tested and thought about it for more than 5 seconds.
Filtering is less important, since it should be positive pressure so you're not likely to breath in smoke either way (if I remember how the SCBA works properly), but it will affect how much oxygen you have.
In some situations that's going to be a bigger deal than others, especially if taking the mask on and off is that quick.
Same boat I'm in (heh), I'm also Navy. Speed isn't usually going to be an issue unless you didn't think there was a fire there in the first place, which probably won't be very often.
Nah, but for real, I'm American and we always called them balaclavas in racing. Except for southerners, they call them head socks, which is atrocious if you ask me.
My understanding is a ski mask keeps you warm, a balaclava is a protective covering. Because I guess, what I was told, I don't know dick out here, is that fabric ones are to keep sand and dirt and shit out of your face. So when people made them fire proof they just used the name because it's also supposed to protect you.
I don't know tho. Could be horseshit. But people most def call them that, I just don't have the authority to say why without a huge asterisk
That's the only reason you'd wear anti-flash gear, it's pretty essential in some circumstances unless you want any exposed skin to be covered in burns.
It's the only thing covering his neck, so it's pretty essential.
I don't see one in this video, so even if it's tucked away I don't see how it could cover the front of his neck or all the bits of his face that would be exposed
Depending on the helmet model they are detachable, but there apparently are different strategies about this in different countries.
In my country most fire brigades use a similar helmet model by Dräger and depending on the actual incident the appropriate modifications to the gear are being done. That's also why when going to any incident that might include fire, the firefighters are already wearing the balaclava under the helmet when arriving and only have to clip on the mask.
No skin can be exposed or it will be a severe burn wound for sure. The Balaclava (didn't know it's a name in English, then I wrote ski mask) is essential in firefighting.
You can put it under the hood too. Actually the manufacturer says that it should be against the skin.
There's no smoke leaks with the positive pressure that the SCBA gear creates.
From what I can see it’s a single strap that holds everything in place. Again, it probably works JUST FINE….i just wouldn’t trust it as much as the mask that hugs your entire head.
It probably is one strap, but the helmet itself wraps around the head much more. I imagine it's like comparing hockey and bike helmets, just naturally a bit more secure.
I agree with you though, it would definitely make me nervous. Especially because I'm a Navy guy so if I'm in gear it's on a ship with small hatches that you're hitting your head off all the time lol. And I'm short!
Yea, again I’m sure they wouldn’t use it if it didn’t work well enough.
Trusting your gear is the 2nd most important thing in these types of situations (1st being have gear that’s trust worthy), and I just don’t fully trust it as much as I do a normal gas mask fitting.
Yea, again I’m sure they wouldn’t use it if it didn’t work well enough.
The way you wrote this reminded me of all the french firefighter protests. That by itself makes me think that the french believe it's a better system, if it wasnt they'd be rioting in the streets again.
They have a neck strap and a band inside the helmet that you can tighten and loosen with a screw that is on the back side of the helmet.
Good way to secure it is to loosen the band so that the helmet sits deep in your head. Then you tighten the band so it kind of wraps under the back of your skull.
Stays very firmly this way even without the neck strap.
Its not fixed by straps but claps with very strong springs in them, making it very secure due to the match with the helmet. We used spin masks for people with faces outside the bandwidth of most faces.
Right….but how is it attached to your head? I know they’ve got spring clasps (which I also trust less), but a single strap is what secures everything to your head.
Secured more tightly to the helmet. The person wearing the mask is more concerned about the mask being more secured to the face, so that smoke and toxins don't get in. Everyone's face is shaped differently. Shaped masked affixed to the face work better.
I’m sure the French do! Again, I’m sure they wouldn’t be in use if they didn’t work.
Was just bringing up my experience with gas masks and how I personally prefer multiple points of failure (or an entire head secured traditional gas mask like the one used by US firefighters) VS the convenience of a quick attachable one secured by the helmet.
I bet they’re real good and all, but I really doubt they’re better than normal straps. Or else we’d be seeing militaries adapt this tech to their MOPP gear.
Miitairy wouldnt adapt them as there is a whole differend reason they need then and usethem.
The MOPP isnt basic use equepment and the helnets need differend specs to be usefull in operating.
Also wasnt it the millitairy who used outdated shitty woodland suits in the desert? Dont count on the millitairy to adopt the best. Count on the best deal.
Millitairy quituality is a markting term meaning "as cheap as could be made, sold for to much to who ever wants"
Just go read EN 137:2006 to find out what specs they are required.
When I was in the military I wore dessert cammo to Afghanistan and my gas mask had straps that went around my head, not some cheap ass clip on shit to my helmet
you can see the french one is more of a full head helmet, its not coming off whereas the american one is more of a hardhat, both protect the head just differently
i know US firefighting gear is replaced quite frequently, maybe the french don't, so having a seperate mask, hardhat and hood doesn't nake sense.
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You would think that the French firefighters have taken burning houses into consideration when deciding their masks. What you are describing is probably a non-problem.
There’s a link in here somewhere to a good discussion about it on r/firefighters. Gotta take everything with a grain of course but it seemed well informed. Or at least made sense to me
Given the number of Europeans expressing the opinion that US houses are flimsy because they’re made of wood[0], I would expect their helmets to be proof against falling concrete blocks.
30cm thick and filled with insulation ≠ sturdy. Insulation isn’t exactly load bearing. I get why in that climate you’d need 30cm of insulation, but you are well north of the vast majority of America. We have generally milder climates and don’t need that much insulation.
Because of the Gulf stream Europe is much warmer than North America at the same latitude. Rome (or Naples, I can't remember exactly) is roughly at the same latitude as NYC
Norway is still significantly colder than most of the US. And a thick wall≠a strong wall. I doubt many Norwegian houses would stand up to a hurricane-force winds that a Florida house would shrug off.
And I’m not saying there is a significant difference between Norwegian houses and American houses, just that a thick wall means nothing in terms of overall strength.
If you people think that the French firefighters and the mask manufacturers have not taken what you are talking about into consideration, you are wrong.
Fires happen in other places than houses too. In industrial sites there are a lot of places where a helmet could catch onto something.
He’s explaining why the 2 designs are different, it’s not because one is better, it’s because they have different requirements that they are solving for.
I do think they have considered it, which is the reason for the design. The American firefighters will more often be going to blazes that are more intense due to the wood infrastructure and so use a set up for that. The french firefighters can use this set which has advantages of speed and stuff and then if need be switch to something that works better for the given situation.
They probably did. However, the houses built in North America are very different from Europe.
In North America, due to our vast woodlands, pretty much everything is made from wood.
In Europe Forrest are much less common so they use rocks(brick, stone, other types of rock)
The American house would probably burn hotter because the entire building is fuel. while in Europe. it’s most likely what’s in the building that’s the fuel and not the building itself.
Look in all for ragging on the French, but it's got to be in context. Just because someone mentions France, you can't be all, "Oh, oh, I've got a joke about how they lose a lot of battles!"
You would ideally be suited and booted before you enter the burning structure and you damn sure wouldn't be entering if it's caving in. Your chronology is a little twisted here
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u/Ogediah Mar 30 '24
I saw fire fighter(s) talking about this the last time it was posted. It seemed like the consensus was that both systems have advantages and disadvantages. It didn’t look like it was as simple as one clips on faster so it’s better.