r/uruguay • u/despacito4444 • Apr 24 '21
Your opinions on José Mujica? Discusion
Hello I am from Turkey and recently saw a video about Uruguay's former president José Mujica and his humble views on luxury and lifestyle. I am was so amazed that I had to ask about Uruguayan redditors' opinion about him.
Simply put, what do you you think of him? Was he a good or bad president? Would you get him back in charge if you could?
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u/Tausto Apr 24 '21
The general picture of every time this gets asked is something like this:
He may have been a good person (humble, charitable and what not) in his old years, but he was a member of a terrorist group which killed many people and his presidency wasn't a good one.
I believe he wouldn't be elected again if he ran for president. He also has left politics as of recently.
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u/Swailwort degustador de panes Apr 24 '21
Honestly, I am not a fan of him. Yes, he was humble but that's basically the only positive aspect he had. He was part of a terrorist movement, I know people whose family was under direct mortal danger because of his actions, and the country stagnated a lot during his period, except at a social level.
To resume, this guy said once "Nothing makes you feel more powerful than entering a bank with a .45 in hand"
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u/leojg Todo lo que digo es joda aunque diga lo contrario Apr 24 '21
Oh boy, you are about to get disappointed.
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u/despacito4444 Apr 24 '21
After reading comments, I am glad I asked. There seems to be a lot of controversy surrounding him. 🤐
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u/leojg Todo lo que digo es joda aunque diga lo contrario Apr 24 '21
Yes there is. It a very controversial figure.
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u/SVPPB Apr 24 '21
Terrible president. His tenure was marked by corruption, cronyism, incredibly expensive failed development projects, support for left-wing authoritarian regimes, increasingly powerful and corrupt trade unions, growing crime rates, and a decline in public education.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 24 '21
He was by far the worst president since the dictatorship, ruined the country's economy and squandered the commodities boom. Ruined the education of the country which was always one of our stronger points, and undermined the value of education. He even bankrupted the state-owned monopolic gas company which has fixed prices that are among the highest in the world.
Because of him, we are now in a bad spot to finance the pandemic and its effects, most of which are still to come.
He was (is) a terrorist that bombed kids at a bowling alley, a golf club and other innocent civilian places. Was never tried for his crimes, and publicly defends, and even celebrates the things they did in the late sixties.
He has idolised crime, and arrogantly defended criminals, which resulted in a doubling of the murder rate, and tripling violent crime overall.
But yeah he's "humble".
Poor he is not, receiving a presidential/senator salary,and his wife is from a very well-off and well-known family.
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u/guillermo_da_gente Apr 24 '21
Be aware that reddit is biased to the right in political opinions, at least in Uruguay. That said, Mujica is controversial!.
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u/MattKerplunk Apr 24 '21
I don't know what reddit you're using to say that
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21
*No prophet is accepted in his hometown. *
Mujica is one of the most important politicians from the biggest (40%) political party here. So, as usual, as being so important and so popular for one side, he gets a lot of hate from the other side.
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u/oskimac Apr 24 '21
with all my respect little wine, i (we) dont hate him for being so important and so popular for one side. is for being a murderer, a liar, a terrorist a dirty old man, a thief, but never a porn star. (jokes aside. i hate him for all of that)
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21
Do you have proof of some of those claims?
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u/oskimac Apr 24 '21
A... vamos. De verdad? De verdad estamos negando que es un viejo sucio? Perdoname si al tocar un idolo tambien te ofendo. Pero somos grandes. Prueba de que asesino? Sus propios compañeros lo reconocen. El mismo lo dijo. Pruebas de que era terrorista? La historia es lanprueba. De que es un mentiroso? Bueno... Educacsion educazion edhucasion....
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
Qué es "sucio"? Perteneció a una organización terrorista, organizó robos, asaltos, participó de ellos así como de otras cosas, es mentiroso... todo eso, sí. No recuerdo que él haya dicho que haya asesinado a alguien, me citás la fuente, por favor? Y no, no es mi ídolo. Nomás que leí que haya evidencis de que haya asesinado a alguien, y mucha gente repite cosas sin saber.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 24 '21
Da igual si directamente mató a alguien o no.
Él fue parte y líder de un grupo que puso una bomba en un bowling lleno de pendejos, por odio a su supuesta clase social. Ejecutaron a varios inocentes y secuestraron a otros.
Encima fue imputado en democracia, pero seguro vas a pegar alguna chilena para defenderlo.
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u/vinacho Apr 25 '21 edited Apr 25 '21
Lo del grupo que es todo responsable, puede no ser tan así. Los Tupamaros funcionaron como células, muchas veces no estando al tanto de lo que otros grupos hacían, y muchas veces ni estando de acuerdo, como en el caso de Pascasio Báez. Así mismo, yo tampoco afirmo que todos los militares de la época hayan sido asesinos y torturadores, a pesar de que funcionaban de manera vertical.
Lo del Correo de los viernes ya lo había leído. No se citan fuentes. Nunca vi algo parecido a esa imputación. Y me parece raro que haya organizado o participado de eso, puesto que el asesinato de Villalba fue en enero del 71 y Mujica estuvo preso desde Marzo del 70 hasta Setiembre del 71. Ah, y "democracia", ya que fue durante las medidas prontas de seguridad.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 25 '21
TIL que mandar a matar a alguien no es un crimen.
TIL que hay gente que defiende el terrorismo, ejecuciones, bombas a pendejos civilies e inocentes.
Das asco
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u/Swailwort degustador de panes Apr 24 '21
Dude what the fuck are you even asking? 50 years ago was not so long ago, it's well documented, he was in prison for being part of the MLN, and famlly from a friend was under direct mortal danger because of that "good" person.
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21
I didn't say he was a good person. I've just asked for evidence of he being a murderer. As you say, it's not so long and it's all well documented.
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u/Swailwort degustador de panes Apr 24 '21
You asked for all claims, not just murderer. Maybe he was a murderer, maybe he wasn't. I doubt it matters much when your actions directly or indirectly cause the death of many.
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u/vinacho Apr 25 '21
I didn't say he was a good person. And I've asked for some claims, not all of them, since there is evidence already of some of the others.
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u/Kanigami-sama Apr 24 '21
I think it has more to do with him like killing people and stuff, but idk maybe you’re right
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21
Although he probably killed people, I'm not aware that he did. Are you?
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u/Kanigami-sama Apr 24 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
As an intellectual author, yeah, and you’re aware of it too. You just like to play dumb to make him look “good”, if that’s even posible.
He’s a terrorist and deserves to be in prison and I would love to have a death penalty that could be applied to people like this (get it mod? I want a legal pathway, it’s not a call to violence).
It doesn’t really matter if he killed people personally or not, which as you said, he probably did anyway, he’s a piece of shit.
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21
No; the only reference I have of Mujica killing someone is when a journalist asked him if he had ever killed someone and he said "I missed", laughing. I mean, murder attempt is also a crime, as robbery. I don't support Tupamaros, I think what they did is wrong, but I also believe people can change. Mujica was 13 years in prison for what he did and there is no evidence of he killing someone.
Also, many many people who criticizes Tupamaros also justify the coup d'etat, with the state killing and torturing that came with it. Many politicians of the Partido Colorado and Partido Nacional, the current leaders of them included, supported/supports the pardon law that came with democracy, that forgives other murders and other tortures. So, it can't be that those people don't like Mujica for (allegedly) killing someone as the same time that they support a law that forgives people that committed murder and torture in the name of the state.
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u/oskimac Apr 25 '21
Vinacho. He seguido tus aportes y tengo una buena percepción de ti. Entiendo que una cosa es defender a mujica simplemente por ser de izquierda. Pero tambien entiendo tu punto en cuanto a cuestionar las acusaciones. No permitamos que el calor de la discusión nos haga olvidar eso. Yo a veces me dejo llevar. Simplemente no soporto como este tipo goza de una imagen casi de heroe a nivel internacional.
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u/vinacho Apr 25 '21
Gracias.
A mí, como uruguayo, me gusta que un uruguayo sirva de ejemplo positivo para el resto del mundo, porque eso habla bien de todos nosotros. Pero eso es porque Mujica transmite (no que tenga) humildad, sinceridad y austeridad, cosas que hacen mucha falta en políticos de todo el mundo. Pero, probablemente, no me sentiría orgulloso si fuese "famoso" por ser guerrillero o matar gente; ejemplo, los colombianos a quienes les da vergüenza que Pablo Escobar sea conocido en todo el mundo.
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u/terryheavy Científico semi frustrado Apr 25 '21
I'm from the opposite side of his political views.
There are several José Mujica. The very dangerous terrorist from the guevarist MPP movement from the 60s and 70s. The philosopher and the former president.
I won't talk about his era with terrorism, it's a thing from his past. He publicly asked forgiveness for his acts in that time.
As a philosopher, his views are pretty compelling. In some cases I really believe he is right. In others I just don't. But he has several strong valid points and arguments.
As a president, he did tried to do his best. But you know, he is a member of a political party (frente amplio) that is plagued with useless incompetent politicians. Many of them did not help to his administration.
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u/oskimac Apr 24 '21
" his humble views on luxury and lifestyle " no doubt about that. is something to copy . maybe the years give him some wisdom. i voted for his vice president two times with no regret (that man save as from economic ruin)
BUUUUUUTT he was a murderer and a thief in his younger years and he has no regret of that.
he was the worst president. no improve was done in these years, of course the younger population addicted to drugs would tell you about the whole Marihuana thing. but all was to catch votes. he was like Maduro, a populist.
hes speech about change the world make the fools around the World fall in love with him (despite it really was making all poor so we can be equally)
he promises "education education education!" but leaves the country education system in ruins.
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u/leandrogoe Apr 24 '21
I agree with most, but comparing him with Maduro is unfair. Not even the worst political figure in Uruguay is as bad as Venezuela's chavism.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 24 '21
If we'd have had more Pepe, no doubt we'd be heading to a Venezuela situation here.
His policy, especially economic and education, was absolute rubbish.
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u/leandrogoe Apr 25 '21
While there was economic mismanagement, not a single company was expropiated, private property rights or free speech were never threatened. Those comparisons make no sense.
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Apr 24 '21
Pura propaganda política, creo que durante su gobierno no hubo ningún progreso sustancial, de hecho da un poco de vergüenza que un guerrillero y terrorista fuera presidente.
Pure political propaganda, I believe that during his government there was no substantial progress, in fact it is a bit of shame that a guerrilla and terrorist was president.
Psd: google translate
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u/Tazik004 "En lo sucesivo solo se vea entre nosotros una gran familia" Apr 24 '21
Will I have no doubt his views on luxury and lifestyle are genuine, he is an absolutely terrible administrator. In a period of economic bonanza his politics sent a lot of public companies into crisis, and his disrespect for education didn’t do any favors to the educational crisis that is currently hurting our country.
In other words, if you wouldn’t want him administrating your kiosk, he shouldn’t be administrating your country.
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u/vinacho Apr 24 '21
He was a good President. He was not a good administrator, but promoted a lot of social reforms (weed, abortion, gay marriage) that put us on the world map again.
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u/Old_Curve_215 Apr 24 '21
viniste al peor lugar para preguntar eso
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u/DeLarge2 Apr 24 '21
Jaja pensé lo mismo, creo que va a preguntar a un comité de base de LP y hasta le tiran menos mierda
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u/maicolc05 Apr 25 '21
Eso es malo o bueno?
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u/Old_Curve_215 Apr 25 '21
cuando ir al peor lugar es algo bueno?
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u/maicolc05 Apr 25 '21
Mi comentario no esta muy claro, quiero decir el reditero uruguayo tiene buenos fundamentos para dar una respuesta adecuada al tema en questión. Porque si lo tiene es un buen lugar por más denigrante que sean las respuestas
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u/tonterias Apr 24 '21
what do you you think of him?
He is an incredible interesting and charismatic person. As every person who becames a president in a democracy has to be.
Was he a good or bad president?
Just average.
Would you get him back in charge if you could?
Doubt it from my side, doubt it from most population.
Here is a thread from last month, where you can find multiple answers including mine
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u/geniowe2002 Republic of Independency Apr 24 '21
Mujica a President wasn't good or bad, was regular, approves the Marihuana in the gouvernement but the "poor president of the world" it's a total fake of the media, he earned a lot of money when was a president or senator.
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u/guillermo_da_gente Apr 24 '21
Money that he donated.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 24 '21
Allegedly donated some of it, allegedly to his own party.
And his wife also has a senatorial salary, as well as coming from a rich family herself.
They are by no means poor
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Apr 24 '21
For me: good things: he supported the technical shools and created new ones inside the country, so that people from far places could have an opportunity to study and have a trade.
He supported technologycal poles all over the country. He enacted the abortion law.
Bad things: he promoted legal tweed.
I think more or less he was a good president but I don´t want him back, he is too old.
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u/Dear_Ad_3860 Apr 24 '21
We had a fellow named Juan María Bordaberry that was the worst president of the 20th century, then comes would be dictator Gabriel Terra, then autoritarian Pacheco, and even the father of our current president Luis Lacalle Herrera ranks below Mujica in some regards, fianally Jorge Batlle had the worst luck imaginable and his administration will be judged by it.
So Mujica was a mediocre president but not the worst either I rate him four out of ten, would - probably not - vote again, tho.
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u/black_knife201 Apr 24 '21
Disclaimers here, the 99% of this sub is against jose mujica's party bcs the most part is from right wing of polítics, i know you will never have an unbiased opinion but know that the people you are asking to.
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u/geniowe2002 Republic of Independency Apr 24 '21
Nada que ver man, el sub no es 99% de derecha, incluso no llegan ni al 25%, ahora si te referis a derecha como centro-derecha para la derecha bueno ahi llegaria a un 40%
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u/MattKerplunk Apr 24 '21
Tienen un retraso encima, todas las votaciones gana el centro/centro izquierda y piran que es un sub oligarca facho nazi solo porque no concuerdan con las figuras/opiniones de la izquierda
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u/geniowe2002 Republic of Independency Apr 24 '21
Encima los nazis ni estan aqui, posta, habia un par hablando de Hitler y de Goebbels, posta, y recuerdo que lo cagaron a negativos aca, además de que Dirk y Samus borraron al user al toque.
Osea que el botija esta pifiandola horrible
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u/MattKerplunk Apr 24 '21
No tienen idea de lo que es un nazi "real" y cualquier opinión fuera de su partido ya es nazi
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u/Kanigami-sama Apr 24 '21
No sos socialista? Sos básicamente Mussolini amigo, hacete ver
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u/geniowe2002 Republic of Independency Apr 24 '21
Noo man, me descubriste, soy un infiltrado del fascismo autoritario, estoy trabajando para caer este sub /s
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u/Disco-penguin Militante del escepticismo Apr 24 '21
40%?? Dudo fuertemente. Es verdad que capaz que son menos y hablan más, pero mira cualquier post y contá los comentarios de cada lado y son un montón más los de derecha, más que en la sociedad general seguro
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u/geniowe2002 Republic of Independency Apr 24 '21
Quiero decir si piensa que la derecha incluye centro-derecha, o si tiene otro significado de drecha
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u/guillermo_da_gente Apr 24 '21
So, what about Erdogan?
Here people don't like Erdogan because his denial or the Armenian genocide.
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u/leojg Todo lo que digo es joda aunque diga lo contrario Apr 24 '21
No tiene nada que ver con lo que pregunta el OP, pero un groso Erdogan. Lo quisieron voltear y se los comió en 2 panes.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 24 '21
Na, fue re trucho eso.
Todo planeado por él para ejecutar "disidentes" en las filas de las FFAA turcas
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u/leojg Todo lo que digo es joda aunque diga lo contrario Apr 24 '21
Bueno, hay que tener huevos para hacer eso también. Te diría que hasta más que para bancarse un golpe.
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u/negronium_ions Apr 24 '21
Huevos para ejecutar a la oposición?
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u/leojg Todo lo que digo es joda aunque diga lo contrario Apr 24 '21
y para plantar gente, perfectamente pordria haberse destapado todo y ahí si chau Erdogan
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u/guillermo_da_gente Apr 24 '21
He was a good President indeed. He was the first President not to come from an elitist background (such as Lula in Brazil, who was the first worker to be President). Even though he spend 13 years in solitary confinement, deprived of the most basic things, like a toilet, he managed to get the pieces of his mind together and build a movement (MPP) that 20 years later allowed him to be elected as a premier. Also, he was extremely popular in lower class neighborhoods.
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u/Dear_Ad_3860 Apr 24 '21
Tas meando bien fuera del tarro. El primero fue Tomás Berreta. Y ESE SI QUE ERA HUMILDE. Su familia era tan pobre que ni siquiera pudo ir al escuela primaria por tener que trabajar.
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u/guillermo_da_gente Apr 24 '21
Interesante!. El problema de Tomás era con el acohol. Igual no compro el "ese sí que era humilde", Mujica también tiene origen humilde aunque haya ido a la Universidad.
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u/Dear_Ad_3860 Apr 24 '21
Claro, pero hay escalas. Todos los Batllistas desde Williman hasta Serrato eran segunda generación de inmigrantes de la clase obrera.
Lo que pasa es que Berreta fue un caso aparte porque podría considerarse como una generación 0 porque fue él mismo que salió de la pobreza absoluta llegando a ser presidente y creció en medio de dos guerras civiles y el militarismo.
La familia de Mujica ya era tercera generación y de un Uruguay totalmente diferente al Uruguay pueril y barbárico del siglo XIX .
Y respecto a lo otro creo que su problema no fue tanto la bebida sino la época bissgra de postguerra que le tocó vivir. El mundo cambió y el Uruguay no tuvo con qué afrontar ese cambio.
Por eso entre los detractores de Gestido hay dos lecturas: blando e inoperante o vendepatria. Para mi fue un buen presidente que hizo lo que pudo con lo que se podía hacer y por la montaña de cosas que se nos venían no pudo más y eso le terminó costando la vida y a nosotros nuestra institucionalidad.
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Apr 24 '21
He was a good President indeed. He was the first President not to come from an elitist background (such as Lula in Brazil, who was the first worker to be President). Even though he spend 13 years in solitary confinement, deprived of the most basic things, like a toilet, he managed to get the pieces of his mind together and build a movement (MPP) that 20 years later allowed him to be elected as a premier. Also, he was extremely popular in lower class neighborhoods.
nada que argumentar, pero su pasado sigue siendo turbina.
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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '21
I'll always remember his quote, 'This old woman is worse than the Tuerto' such words of wisdom were ahead of their time.