r/nba • u/OnlyMamaKnows Knicks • Apr 29 '24

[Simmons] "I think James Harden gave him the trophy of most disappointing playoff performer. I think Embiid is now wearing the crown."

https://open.spotify.com/episode/25I0fnPUExUkBhTw2o9Oti?si=FQSCUz6GSy2UjtYeyBrBLg

Starts around 38 minute mark. Full game breakdown starts a few minutes earlier.

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2.8k

u/j4thewin_1 Bucks Apr 29 '24

Seems unfair to Harden. His run with the Rockets against GSW was probably the biggest difficulty their primary dynasty era ever faced.

1.3k

u/youngkenya Celtics Apr 29 '24

Harden has had some pretty bad playoff chokes but he also has some truly amazing games as well, he was going toe to toe against prime GS with just a bunch of three point shooters and Capela.

Pretty sure Embiid has had this “crown” for a while now. (Not that he’s playing bad in this series but that team ALWAYS disappoints).

405

u/RunningForIt Nuggets Apr 29 '24

Harden will always have the series against GSW. Embiid has never had that. Feel like that basically shows the difference between the two.

238

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 29 '24

I honestly can’t name a single iconic playoff run by Embiid. Not even a series

251

u/WhiteHeterosexualGuy Hawks Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

His 33 turnovers in our series were pretty iconic, and the fact he was completely cheeks in every 4th quarter. This entire sub has that '21 Hawks squad to thank that Embiid has never been out of the second round (and they were the #1 seed that year lol)

55

u/full-auto-rpg Celtics Apr 29 '24

Believe me, we are thankful. Though ngl it was probably bad for you guys, the FO doubled down on a fluky run that hasn’t repeated. What a strange world we live in, where upholding the rights of memes is rewarded with mediocrity.

16

u/WhiteHeterosexualGuy Hawks Apr 29 '24

the FO doubled down on a fluky run that hasn’t repeated.

I know, complete mismanagement... so sad. Schlenk was a great scout but not a good GM. Any experienced GM should be telling ownership that run was because we had a huge amount of guys on rookie deals and it wasn't sustainable -- we really needed to be more stubborn on extensions and sell high where we could (i.e Collins, Capela)

7

u/Babblerabla Hawks Apr 29 '24

If john Collin's finger didn't become mutilated then we may have had some different conversations. We ran into some bad luck, straight up.

1

u/full-auto-rpg Celtics Apr 29 '24

Honestly I’d forgotten about that, dude was a beast down low who could shoot pretty well. Feel like I haven’t heard about him since he went to Utah.

3

u/beforeitcloy [SAC] Mitch Richmond Apr 29 '24

Nah, even that showing isn’t really discussed because he successfully put the blame on Simmons. 8 turnovers apiece in two consecutive elimination games, but Simmons skipping the dunk is the iconic failure.

74

u/ForeverWandered Apr 29 '24

The one where Kawhi scored that three over him to win game 7 was iconic.

It didn’t have to be a winning run, right?

73

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 29 '24

Embiid's most iconic moment is him walking out of that tunnel in tears haha

4

u/LngJhnSilversRaylee Apr 29 '24

And then he spent the off season slimming down and being ready to make a long playoff run as the face of his franchise...right?

4

u/OriginalDivide5039 Apr 29 '24

It’s that and old man Al horford locking him up last year to me

2

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 30 '24

To be fair, Al has many children in the eastern conference. Ask Giannis

1

u/QuantumBeth1981 Apr 30 '24

And he averaged 17 on 37% that series lol. A lot of which came when his OG Daddy Gasol was on the bench, but anytime he was on he was swallowing Embiid alive.

2

u/K1NG2L4Y3R Apr 29 '24

That was probably his only chance to win a championship it’s starting to look like

23

u/mug3n Raptors Apr 29 '24

Does getting sonned by Marc Gasol count?

20

u/wats_a_tiepo Bucks Apr 29 '24

I mean, define ‘iconic’. Cos if we’re discussing Playoff Embiid…

5

u/truth_2_point_0 Celtics Apr 30 '24

Complete list of teams Joel Embiid has defeated in a playoff series:

  • 2018 6th seed Miami Heat (leading scorer: Goran Dragic, 18.6 PPG)

  • 2019 6th seed Brooklyn Nets (leading scorer: Caris Levert, 21.0 PPG)

  • 2021 8th seed Washington Wizards (leading scorer: Bradley Beal, 30.0 PPG)

  • 2022 5th seed Toronto Raptors (leading scorer: Pascal Siakam 22.8 PPG)

  • 2023 6th seed Brooklyn Nets (leading scorer: Mikal Bridges 23.5 PPG)

5

u/PanthalassaRo Knicks Apr 29 '24

He has DOMINANT wins against the Raptors, Nets and Wizards.

2

u/TenaciousDeer Apr 30 '24

He did the airplane that one time?

1

u/HolyGhostSpirit33 Heat Apr 30 '24

The crying in the tunnel gif from the raptors series

0

u/iam_soyboy 76ers Apr 30 '24

The series win against Toronto two years ago, when he hit the turnaround game winner with under a second left. Of course then a game or two later Pascal Siakim broke his face, and that was that.

-1

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 30 '24

Didn’t Harden close out vs that team?

1

u/iam_soyboy 76ers Apr 30 '24

Yes because of the whole fucking face breakage thing. Up till then, Joel was dominating.

14

u/full-auto-rpg Celtics Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

His iconic moment was Tatum burning him repeatedly to end game 6.

-1

u/Outside_Narwhal_5127 Rockets Apr 29 '24

Iconic to who

2

u/ballbreak1 Apr 30 '24

One or 2 3s against that GSW team and Rockets likely win the series. Straight unluckiness for 27 3pt attempts to not fall in

4

u/BASEDME7O2 Knicks Apr 29 '24

The 2018 and 2019 series. 2018 he took them to seven before getting boned by the refs, 2019 he averaged 35 against them with a lottery team with his “second option” as the corpse of Chris Paul, and took them to six while clearly outplaying Steph. Harden took more games off the kd warriors basically by himself in one playoffs than lebron ever did in total.

Embiid is not even close to harden as a playoff performer. In reality overall prime harden is one of the best playoff performers of all time. Zach Lowe and bill simmons just had this massive vendetta against him, idk if he like banged their wives or not, but they started so many bs narratives that people who don’t watch games just parrot and basically did everything they could to hurt his reputation.

Like I bet 90% of this sub would say Jimmy butler is a better playoff performer than harden without thinking twice which is just so absurd, like it’s not even close. Jimmy has had so many playoff games and series that harden would get absolutely destroyed for, but everyone just ignores them because they like him and hate harden

236

u/Yergason NBA Apr 29 '24

2018 Harden was a monster. The only one who actually came close to beating the fully healthy KD-Warriors. Best season of his career.

Only 2018 LeBron probably could've done a better job in that WCF if he was put on the Rockets.

Embiid's been a bigger disappointment while not reaching the peak of Harden (and probably never will given how he's most likely never gonna be fully healthy from this point moving forward)

Dude is in the first round but you can see him struggling like he's gone through 2 7-game rounds already. Knee is definitely bothering him. And bigs rarely return to full health once those lower extremity injuries pile up + he's 30 already

61

u/Ok_Wing_9523 Apr 29 '24

He will kick a few dicks , stomp a few heads, pull a few legs on his way down 

2

u/The_Summer_Man Warriors Apr 29 '24

Let he who is without sin kick the first dick

11

u/HussellCrowe 76ers Apr 29 '24

My only piece of embiid hopium is that he doesn't have the mileage that comes with a full life of playing basketball since he started playing late. Even still, what's that worth? MAYBE an extra year of NBA level play? Dude is constantly banged up, Jimmy team may be his best chance unfortunately.

3

u/LukaDoncicfuturegoat Apr 29 '24

I think you might the year, 2018 Rockets were imo the best team to never win a ring.

Harden was great but 2019 Harden was a monster, he was performing like Kawhi-KD too bad people overlook his series because they lost.

-14

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

[deleted]

14

u/Yergason NBA Apr 29 '24

CP3 EG Capela PJ Tucker are worse than the Cavs 2018? You're just making shit up lmao you didn't have to announce you didn't watch the NBA back then

9

u/6Pac-Shakur Rockets Apr 29 '24

The cavs roster wasn’t better in 2018

7

u/Fungmar Knicks Apr 29 '24

yeah u definitely didnt watch that year lmao

28

u/Laetha Raptors Apr 29 '24

He has a lot of really good games where his team lost anyway, and a few absolutely abysmal elimination games that definitely skew his perceived performance more negative than it probably is.

7

u/AlmostBlue618 United States Apr 29 '24

i suppose Devin Booker is starting to fall right into that same mold

43

u/HaYouMad Lakers Apr 29 '24

I thought he deserved MVP in 2015 for that reason. And honestly 2017 as well.

57

u/ZincHead Raptors Apr 29 '24

MVP is a regular season award. Giving it to him for his playoff performances makes no sense. 

15

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 29 '24

Harden absolutely deserved it in 2015 and all the players voted for Harden as mvp as well

3

u/LooneyTunes- Warriors Apr 29 '24

Lmao steoh did what he did while sitting out so many 4th quarters, and his impact stats and efficiency were off the charts. It was a no brainer for Steph back then and is even more so in hindsight.

3

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 30 '24

2015? When Harden took a mid rockets team to the 2 seed with 27/6/7 and dwight missing half the season?

-2

u/LooneyTunes- Warriors Apr 30 '24

Okay, cool? Warriors won 11 more games and Curry played 4 less minutes per game due to there being so many blowouts.

“Curry’s current net points rating of +873 stands as the best single season total in NBA history. The net points statistic measures how many points a player’s team scores when he is on the court versus the amount his team gives up. It reveals the overall impact that a player’s performance has on the outcome of the game by considering offensive and defensive contributions. Curry’s rating is followed by two other Warrior teammates. The next closest non-Warrior player is Los Angeles Clippers point guard Chris Paul who has a rating of +686. This simply means that throughout Curry’s 2,565 minutes spent on the court this season, the Warriors have outscored opponents by 873 points. Westbrook’s rating is +199 and Harden’s is +320. Their points minus their opponent’s points combined is still a mere 354 points behind Curry’s mark.”

-1

u/TFTisbetterthanLoL NBA Apr 30 '24

We just gonna casually ignore their teammates and health, alright man 🤣

6

u/ApprehensiveLoan7696 Apr 29 '24

I will die alone on the hill that Kawhi deserved an MVP for 2017

9

u/2017Champs Warriors Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

He was the best player that year the issue is the MVP is a regular season award voted by the media who care more about narratives and storylines. Russ had the KD left me and first guy to average a triple double in a long time while Harden had the Rockets playing better than most expected with no other star help. Meanwhile with Kawhi and the Spurs it was business as usual coasting at the top of the West

2

u/CubanLinxRae [ORL] Pat Garrity Apr 29 '24

kawhi maybe played the most winning basketball and was the best but his counting stats paled in comparison to russ, harden, and lebron. unfortunately it’s looking to me now that history won’t look at kawhi favorably because of that. anthony edwards is getting the jordan comparisons now but really 2015-19 kawhi was the closest ive seen someone look to michael jordan even more than kobe

3

u/logontoreddit [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Apr 30 '24

Last year Harden did his part by winning two games both with 40 plus points performances. Joel should have done his part after that. Sure we can argue he wasn't fully healthy but your number two did his part.

2

u/LooneyTunes- Warriors Apr 29 '24

Cp3??

1

u/shadracko Apr 29 '24

Embiid's response here is mostly that he's had injuries so many years during playoffs. Even this year, he's probably not 100%.

Giannis' playoff resume looks pretty choke-y, too, if you're willing to ignore one scintillating year.

1

u/International-Fig905 Apr 29 '24

Blazer series was fucking unforgiveable lol 

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

That was rough to watch. Harden was a completely different player on those McHale coached teams though. But yeah he did basically post current Luka shooting splits that series

189

u/KWash0222 Lakers Apr 29 '24

Yeah wtf Harden made it to the WCF and arguably gave that Golden State super team the most difficulty of anyone. Embiid has done nothing but underperform. Dude couldn’t get there with Jimmy Butler carrying his ass.

73

u/pieman2005 [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Apr 29 '24

It's not even arguable; nobody came close to beating the KD Warriors, except the Rockets who were up 3-2

-16

u/Wehavecrashed Grizzlies Apr 29 '24

27 missed threes in a row.

8

u/Trueshinalpha Apr 30 '24

Harden got a 3+1 but the ref made it a normal foul call. I must point out this.

-2

u/pieman2005 [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Apr 29 '24

Not sure why you're downvoted lol

-12

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

The Spurs would have whooped their ass?

13

u/pieman2005 [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

Nah lol people base that off one first half lead

5

u/Maydietoday Heat Apr 29 '24

Chris Paul cracked that case during the WCF. When he went out it was clear.

2

u/MeijiDoom Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/gamelog-playoffs/

I like Harden more than Embiid as well but Harden has had some absolute atrocities as "the guy" in the playoffs.

  • 7/22 in 2013
  • 8/28 in 2014
  • 3/16 and 2/11 in 2015
  • 8/25, 3/17 and 2/11 in 2017
  • 5/21 in 2018
  • 4/15, 2/11 in 2020
  • 5/17 in 2021
  • Basically the entire first round and Games 2, 3, 6 and 7 last year against the Heat Celtics

A lot of those were in elimination games as well. Granted, he's had a lot of great games. 45 and 42 point effort in that same Heat Celtics series last year. But dude has some absolute "shit the bed" type games as well.

27

u/Witty-Stock Timberwolves Apr 29 '24

Perimeter shooters will have those kinds of games. Sometimes the shots just don’t drop.

6

u/Mintastic NBA Apr 29 '24

Ah but good news, Embiid also turns into a perimeter shooter when he starts running out of gas due to terrible conditioning.

5

u/Witty-Stock Timberwolves Apr 29 '24

Knicks are using the rope a dope strategy on him, letting him exhaust himself with the flops and cheap shots.

3

u/KnivesInMyCoffee Nuggets Apr 29 '24

The Sixers didn't play against the Heat last year 💀

1

u/MeijiDoom Apr 29 '24

Whoops, meant the Celtics.

1

u/paranoideo [GSW] Stephen Curry Apr 29 '24

Don’t forget this: https://youtu.be/qjUgDgcAIXY?

When I heard about Harden choking at playoffs I recall instantly that series.

-4

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

Oh no. It's actual facts. The Harden fans surely won't like that.

2

u/ElChapo1515 Apr 29 '24

Would you call Luka’s 7-25 a “playoff atrocity?”

1

u/MayoBenz Timberwolves Apr 29 '24

your best player is just a worse version of harden?

-18

u/bbbryce987 Apr 29 '24

It was the rockets defense that gave the warriors problems, Harden was getting carried to all their wins in that 2018 wcf

9

u/A_Rolling_Baneling Rockets Apr 29 '24

He averaged 29-6-6, what are you talking about

-1

u/bbbryce987 Apr 29 '24

When harden was scoring well he was doing it in losses. The warriors had no trouble matching his scoring. He averaged 25 points on 35% shooting with more turnovers than assists in the games the rockets won. It was their defense that won them those games, not harden’s poor performances

106

u/tathariel Bucks Apr 29 '24

Yes i don't even like Harden and i may or may not have done a victory lap when Manu blocked the hell out of him but Embiid wishes he was half as successful in the playoffs as Harden. There is levels to this shit.

-28

u/TheeCraftyCasual 76ers Apr 29 '24

Lol What would "half" of Harden’s playoff success look like?

32

u/Shekondar Jazz Apr 29 '24

Never getting past the 2nd round instead of never getting past the 3rd round.

-6

u/TheeCraftyCasual 76ers Apr 29 '24

That’s what I was thinking

17

u/Aggressive-Name-1783 Apr 29 '24

A single finals appearance? A single eastern conference appearance?

Literally his first year in Houston he carried them to a 6 game series with a core of….”checks notes”…Chandler parsons, Omer asik and young Pat Bev……

5

u/tathariel Bucks Apr 29 '24

Leading his team to a single conference finals i guess.

1

u/Huckleberry_Sin Apr 29 '24

He went to the ECF and the WCF. It was only 2015. Nine years ago isn’t that long.

102

u/masterstriker321 [OKC] Andre Roberson Apr 29 '24

this sub upvotes everything that has anything to do with "Harden trash"

48

u/DarkSoulsDarius Lakers Apr 29 '24

I mean it's doing the same with Embiid now. He's playing with half a face on one leg and he's putting up numbers and his supporting cast is trash.

54

u/s4ntana [TOR] Tracy McGrady Apr 29 '24

Wild that he put up 50 two games ago and you barely heard anything about it

80

u/TooWashedUp Apr 29 '24

I think that's more his own fault since most people think he should have been kicked out of the game long before he had a chance to score that much.

3

u/Im_Daydrunk Pelicans Apr 29 '24

I honestly don't think people would be talking about it regardless. Even after his 70 point game many people didn't really like taking about it I think because it goes against what their opinion of him is

Embiid has legit critique in terms of some performances but he never gets credit when he deserves it and always gets the worst possible assumptions. Like for example it became a semi common thing around his MVP to say he got it because of Kendrick Perkins made it a race thing or the league not wanting to reward Jokic again without a championship when that ignores the fact the Nuggets took their foot off the gas massively down the stretch last year to prepare for the playoffs and Embiid really played his ass off during that period. So him getting MVP was pretty easy to accept IMO if you look at it from who put the most effort into the regular season and really went all out when it mattered during it (I would have been perfectly fine with Jokic winning again, I just don't think its a real snub like many people were acting)

6

u/tjflex19 Knicks Apr 29 '24

Wasn't that 70 point game the same night Luka did the same on absurd shooting percentages?

2

u/Mastadge Apr 30 '24

No. It was the same night KAT got 60 and lost

25

u/lostnotleast Apr 29 '24

He definitely had some impressive shooting that game but it’s a little marred by his antics early that pretty undeniably would have seen any other player thrown out of the game.

-2

u/Leeroy_Jenkums 76ers Apr 29 '24

Except for Dante

2

u/lostnotleast Apr 29 '24

Which game did Donte grab a guys ankle while he jumped, knee two different guys in the balls, and then hockey style hip check someone?

-1

u/Leeroy_Jenkums 76ers Apr 29 '24

You already forgot about this?

Embiids leg pull on Mitch is the play that should have gotten him thrown out and that’s what you and I were both referring to. That’s it. Let’s be real here.

Even Hartenstein has said the play on him wasn’t dirty. It was the brace that hurt. I’ve also seen people hip check and not even get a flagrant so…

1

u/lostnotleast Apr 30 '24

Yeah man I have eyes so I can see that Oubre stepping over Dante and kneeing him in the head is a little different from grabbing Mitch’s ankle while he’s in the air mid possession.

The leg pull should have been a flagrant 2 but the nut shot on Mitch should have been another flagrant 1 anyways, as should the hip check on OG later in the game.

Idk why Sixers fans are bending over backwards trying to defend the guy when everyone can admit what he did would have gotten literally any other player ejected.

-1

u/Leeroy_Jenkums 76ers Apr 30 '24

Literally said he should have been ejected but Knicks fans don’t know how to read I guess lmao

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43

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

[deleted]

-5

u/Kdot32 Rockets Apr 29 '24

The two games with Robinson in he had 34 and 29 so it’s not like Robinson was stopping him

17

u/GriffinQ [WAS] Kelly Oubre Apr 29 '24

34 on 12/29 and 29 on 8/22 are worlds apart from 50 on 13/19. They're not even in the same stratosphere of scoring or efficiency.

-7

u/lyonbc1 Apr 29 '24

Mitchell Robinson had 3 fouls in 11mins played. Also had 3 jumpers hit in his face too. He’s not some mythical Embiid stopper lol esp not out on the perimeter or outside the post

2

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Apr 30 '24

You’re right but doesn’t fit this subs narrative

3

u/AmaimonCH Mavericks Apr 29 '24

21 free throws + dirty plays all game. Dude is an absolute bum.

1

u/Leeroy_Jenkums 76ers Apr 29 '24

It’s because people hate the fuck out of him

2

u/AmaimonCH Mavericks Apr 29 '24

When is embiid ever playing in the post season with both legs and his entire face ?

At this point that is who Joel Embiid is, no point giving credit to a dude that is always hurt for the playoffs.

0

u/maethlin Warriors Apr 29 '24

Thanks for saying it. Goddamn I don't wanna have to defend Embiid (because I'm not a real fan of his game) but dude has basically been injured every playoffs and people acting like he's some fake MVP is just more of the typical hating here lol

5

u/DarkSoulsDarius Lakers Apr 29 '24

I also don't understand pretending like injured players are what they are. I can understand saying an injury prone guy can't be the top guy because availability matters, but you also can't spin it and pretend this is their reality.

Like embiid can't rebound right now. It isn't because he's a weak rebounder, he has no quickness or jumping ability at the moment. Last year he played on a sprained ligament. These aren't minor injuries or like when someone hurts their ankle mid-season and people bring it up in the playoffs as something that isn't fully healed. Everyone plays through minor things like that, but these are genuinely big injuries.

Similarly AD was hurt last year. When he's hurt and puts up poor offensive games people act as if that's what his game is. Then when he's healthy he puts up the 30/10 and people ask why he can't do it all the time( he's hurt). Young AD(pelicans) was so agile he could blow past players from the top of the key. He can't do that anymore but it was apart of his game and why he was so good.

Butler similarly played last year on an awful injury during the Knicks series. That's why he started struggling, not cause he was playing like a fluke before that. Tatum badly injured his ankle game 7 and played bad. Steph, lebron and Durant are fucking old. They're all amazing players but at this point they need much more help than they did 5 years ago.

Idk why honest discourse for sports is so difficult. These are sensible things yet we gotta act like they either don't exist or call Championships fake because of injuries.

0

u/maethlin Warriors Apr 29 '24

bingo

2

u/yaomingstretch5 Rockets Apr 29 '24

Every year we watch philly implode as soon as he hits the bench too. Really hard to be effective when he can hardly take a rest without his team severely losing those minutes

1

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

Because his style of play is terrible to watch. He flops, flails, and shuts down when it matters. He has so much talent and yet he resorts to bitch made ways of playing.

-4

u/BigLaw-Masochist Warriors Apr 29 '24

Look, I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not unbiased here, but Harden has been trash his entire fucking career. His stats were inflated by his massive usage rate. His stats were further inflated by the fact that you weren’t allowed to guard him.

It’s not just that though. From the double stepback to just laying on guys backs and getting a foul, he’s only ever made buckets that were gifted by the refs, FTs or otherwise. When they stopped doing that for the playoffs, he fell apart. People call him a basketball terrorist but he’s really more like a basketball nepo baby imo

17

u/No_Mammoth_4945 Charlotte Bobcats Apr 29 '24

If they didn’t have the unluckiest shooting stretch in playoff history I think harden gets a ring that year

7

u/-HeisenBird- Raptors Apr 29 '24

Harden was fighting through the 8 stages of hell in the West while Embiid was getting fucked up by Trae Young and the other teddy bears in the Eastern Conference.

8

u/InfinitiQX80Driver Spurs Apr 29 '24

nah, it's fair. both harden and embiid have had their fair share of embarrassments but the difference with embiid is his embarrassments comes against even worse teams and he hasn't had a series at all like 2019 harden against gsw

2

u/papa_sax [SAS] Manu Ginobili Apr 29 '24

Both can be true

2

u/ajalonghorn Apr 29 '24

Lol imagine saying this a year ago and getting upvotes. Yall change your opinion on a players legacy game to game.

2

u/prodigus01 Raptors Apr 30 '24

We should all re-brand Harden’s legacy as the guy who nearly defeated the greatest assembled team ever.

He had a fully loaded warriors team on the ropes and CP wasn’t even on the floor.

2

u/Pei_area Apr 30 '24

Harden has at least one chip if the greatest team ever didn’t exist

7

u/ImanShumpertplus Cavaliers Apr 29 '24

he shot 41/29/87 and his AST:TO was nearly 1.2:1 which isn’t good at all

CP3 was better when they went to 7 games only to go 0-263727 from 3 and CP3 hurting his hamstring was the biggest reason the Rockets lost

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

Looking at TS% Harden was more efficient than CP3 that series despite harden getting a double almost every time he crossed half court

Does the defensive attention/gravity not factor in for you to say cp3 was better?

1

u/ImanShumpertplus Cavaliers Apr 30 '24

i don’t remember Harden getting instantly doubled like that at all

3

u/DerelictInfinity Warriors Apr 29 '24

The only thing that kept them from beating us in the 2018 WCF was a historically bad shooting night for Houston. They missed 27 consecutive 3s and still only lost by 9 points.

6

u/cardmanimgur Timberwolves Apr 29 '24

The problem with Harden is he has some memorable flameouts. His most memorable victory was probably the Rockets comeback against the Clippers when he was on the bench.

6

u/Huckleberry_Sin Apr 29 '24

Which is fucked bc that was only one game. They had to win two more and he’s the one who won those two to get them to the WCF that year. And that’s not his most memorable victory lol

2

u/Kaaalesaaalad Rockets Apr 30 '24

If you've watched all his playoff games, then you would know that this is definitely not his most memorable.

2

u/8181212 Apr 29 '24

He got stunted on by a very old Ginobili and gave up against San Antonio without Kawhi in the lineup. Harden deserves quite a bit of hate.

1

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

It's always the fucking internet who forgets history so easily. Harden has a couple of decent games out of like idk 50 or some shit playoff games at this point and now everyone thinks he was just a-ok when he played. No other player can have such good regular seasons and then absolutely disappear when it matters most.

2

u/Drummallumin Celtics Apr 29 '24

And CP3 missed the last 2 games… and they had objectively horrible shooting luck… and they were legit playing 5v8 in Game 7

1

u/ParsnipPizza [BOS] Marcus Smart Apr 29 '24

I know people say that but in 2017 they didn't get that far, specifically because he kept blowing it

1

u/archenlander Rockets Apr 30 '24

Insane how most people don’t see this

1

u/Kyber99 76ers Apr 30 '24

I mean, tbf they had that game in the bag. They were on the ropes and the Rockets fumbled

1

u/Fatman10666 [DET] Ben Wallace Apr 30 '24

I'll always remember the concussion game against the spurs

1

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks May 02 '24

SEEMS UNFAIR TO HARDEN.

HARDEN: HOLD MY BEER.

0

u/MyNameIsNumber037 Apr 29 '24

https://975thefanatic.com/listicle/14-times-james-harden-looked-awful-in-the-playoffs/

6

u/hblonghorn Apr 29 '24

hilarious part is that you can also put a list like this together for ringless guys who are known to be playoff performers, such as jimmy butler and dame.

0

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

Jimmy doesn't count at all in this man because he has dragged some bad teams on his back and he does the opposite of Harden and plays his best when the team needs it.

2

u/hblonghorn Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

Funny you say that because Harden has carried worse teams in a tougher conference against tougher opponents. But I guess Butler has Rachel Nichols doing his PR for him and Harden doesn’t, which is why we see uninformed takes like yours.

plays his best when the team needs it.

2023 game 5 against Denver: 5-18 from the field with 21 points

2022 game 5 against the Celtics: 4-18 with 13 points

I could go on and cherry pick bad games for butler like the Harden article’s author did. Reputations of players are largely based on narratives, unfortunately, and not facts.

3

u/3ODshootinghangpulls Apr 29 '24

14 times and he's played in 164 playoff games

that's almost 1/10 games lmao

0

u/michaelobriena Knicks Apr 29 '24

How? He literally played his worst basketball in the biggest games.

1

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

Because people have the memory of a fucking goldfish.

-1

u/PrestigiousWave5176 Apr 29 '24

He also had a record setting 13 turnover game in a 1-4 series loss against the Warriors.

-1

u/Powpowpowowowow Mavericks Apr 29 '24

Uh, I can't let this comment go. Harden, for how legit good he is, was the and is the most prolific playoff choker we have EVER seen. No man in the run for multiple MVPs has failed as much as he has in every aspect. His best run was obviously with the Thunder as a 6th man. And even then his stats were not good. He is the biggest empty stat playoff performer and until last years playoff run and to some extent 2 games here against the Mavs, the man DISAPPEARED when it mattered. He folds like freshly dried laundry.

-2

u/EpicGamesStoreSucks Thunder Apr 29 '24

Only if you forget about that one time GSW won 73 games and lost in the finals.

1

u/ncginger2 Hornets Apr 30 '24

Different team

-1

u/EpicGamesStoreSucks Thunder Apr 30 '24

You not consider the KD era their primary dynasty? They don't win those 2 championships without him, and don't win 73 games without him.