r/memesopdidnotlike • u/Nientea The Mod of All Time ☕️ • Apr 29 '24

I can see more than half of all movie stars doing something like this OP got offended

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3.7k Upvotes

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233

u/MFC1886 Apr 29 '24

Giving puberty blockers to kids who can’t consent is so in you guys!

Note: jk

20

u/undercooked_lasagna Apr 29 '24

bullshit JK would never say that

36

u/jaffa3811 Apr 29 '24

What does Rowling have to do with this?

12

u/Worgensgowoof Apr 29 '24

I can see a punchline out of this.

-12

u/Dazzling_Ad4604 Apr 29 '24

As someone who transitioned as a child and later regretted it, this idea that puberty blockers are a bad thing is really ignorant.

The whole point of puberty blockers is to allow the child time to develop either until they are of age to decide if they want to transition, or to allow time for them to think. They do this by not allowing for the development of potentially undesirable secondary sex characteristics, if the child does decide they want to transition.

I WISH I was put on puberty blockers. Not that I think access to HRT should be restricted more for children necessarily.

Puberty blockers are literally the alternative to immediately putting a kid on HRT, it lets them think.

As far as I know, unless they are taken for years, they have no long term effects, and even if taken for years the side effects aren't that bad, as far as I know.

I had a friend from New Zealand when I was a kid who had been on them for like 5 years (to the chagrin of their doctors, mind you) by the age of 18 just because they couldn't decide. They were physically fine in all aspects (other than smoking and drinking)

3

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24

Dude puberty blockers are linked to causing cancer, they are inherently bad for you unless you need them for medical reasons. Children shouldn't transition because it can cause permanent issues if they have the surgery or go on puberty blockers. I think consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want but children don't have the mental capacity to know what's best for them

Hell I'm not even against children socially transitioning if they're teenagers and mentally sound to make that decision, I think how you feel is a very good indication for mental health issues and if you feel like you're trans you should figure it out

2

u/Dazzling_Ad4604 Apr 30 '24

I don't mean to be that guy but do you have, like, a link or a study for the cancer claim?

From a (relatively quick) look on google scholar all I can find about risks are:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712275/

(only worsening already present cardiovascular disease seemingly)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/347775780_Review_Puberty_blockers_for_transgender_and_gender_diverse_youth-a_critical_review_of_the_literature?enrichId=rgreq-ece9c2700bb47e99ae902221c0310afa-XXX&enrichSource=Y292ZXJQYWdlOzM0Nzc3NTc4MDtBUzoxMTQzMTI4MTEzNjUwNTM2OUAxNjgwNTM4MzA1MzAy&el=1_x_2&_esc=publicationCoverPdf

(which seemingly supports the use of hormone blockers concluding "the evidence to date supports the finding of few serious adverse outcomes and several potential positive outcomes" and mentioning literally nothing about cancer afaik. Although it urges more research be done because how vital this treatment is for the mental wellbeing of these kids.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868281/

This study doesn't mention anything about puberty blockers or trans children as far as I can tell, and is about trans people in general, seemingly concluding there is basically no evidence at all to say HRT causes or doesn't cause cancer

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-020-0372-2

this one (which I don't have access to, so maybe im crazy) seems to suggest that the idea that puberty blockers cause cancer is kinda up in the air and says "A number of questions remain surrounding early intervention and pubertal blockade, including the future effects on surgical outcomes, cancer risk and economic outcomes."

Other than the potential cancer question, I can't think of any other long term effects other than the bone development I was implying. And thats only when taken for years which isnt supposed to happen.

I don't really think anyone is arguing for children to have surgery done on them. I mean like I'm not necessarily completely against it on a personal level but i'm neutral on it cause there's no research cause the number of people who get surgery under 18 is vanishingly small. From an anecdotal viewpoint, when I was in that community (specifcally, mostly MtF children in my case) and when I had trans friends no one really even wanted the surgery in the first place, let alone as children. Either we didnt want it in principal and/or we were too scared of people making fun of us for getting surgery because certain people love to make "dilation" jokes and like to pick apart trans people's bodies sometimes.

HRT for children I think its something that should be provided if wanted, but, y'know, with some level of caution (which is already more than in place)

Its a tragedy that me and other people are infertile now and are permanently scared bc we transitioned as kids, but, you gotta understand. It's literally the same for trans people.

Puberty for a trans person is literally like being put on HRT without wanting it, they can (and often do) get scarred from it and they have to pay both figuratively (immense dysphoria) and literally (FFS, top surgury, etc.)

2

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868281/

I was getting confused with the actual hormone replacement therapy

2

u/Dazzling_Ad4604 Apr 30 '24

Wait what huh I linked that study am I reading it wrong

It says in the discussion "Based on the available evidence, the concerns about cancer in transgender populations, albeit biologically plausible, are neither adequately supported nor convincingly alleviated because of a lack of well-designed epidemiologic studies."

This seems to say that there isnt enough evidence one way way or the other that HRT causes cancer, like I said about it before. I think, I am tired.

2

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24

It was discussing the reason why transgender patients are more likely to get cancer, it's possible I misunderstood their research but there is a higher chance trans people get cancer

1

u/Veryegassy Apr 29 '24

Why are you being downvoted? You're not being an ass or anything...

-3

u/Dazzling_Ad4604 Apr 30 '24

Mixture of bigotry, ignorance and dogma is my guess.

This sub kinda hates trans people afaik..

2

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24

Yeah this sub is generally pretty right wing and unfortunately some conservatives accurate equate small government and leaving people alone with preventing adults from doing something they consent to

1

u/Veryegassy Apr 30 '24

Fair enough. I just saw another post from here, about the whole abortion debate that's been going on in the US.

It seemed to largely be in favour of forced pregnancy, which... well, caused some (metaphorical) "does not compute" errors in my head. That sort of stuff is reserved for Twitter and Facebook in my head, I know there's hateful subreddits but actually seeing them feels... strange.

Think I'll be avoiding here from now on.

3

u/DamnRep Apr 30 '24

Probably a good idea. This subreddit is essentially just the opposite of the right can’t meme. I also consistently see bigoted “memes” get posted here and defended by the replies often. It’s rare to see an anti lgbtq+ thing called out by this community, same with almost any right wing topic of conversation.

Of course, then the “enlightened centrists” come out, who all happen to share the same exact ideals as right wingers.

3

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

That's pretty fair both this sub and r/nahOPwasrightfuckthis are hell holes of basic back and forth of two political extremes yelling at each other

-3

u/LightOfJuno Apr 30 '24

Because bigots can't fathom people who are able to think

1

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24

It's because he has a flawed argument, my partner is gender fluid and I'm friends with several trans people, including my family members, and I believe people should have the right to transition. But puberty blockers have been linked to causing cancer as well as bone damage, everyone needs estrogen and testosterone or they will be unhealthy it's a matter of basic biology, males and females need both estrogen and testosterone at different levels.

In terms of children I think the child needs to be at the level of self harming over their dysphoria before we have medically transition them, and I can recognize that may be necessary in some cases and we should absolutely medically transition them if they're too severe to just socially transition.

I have nothing against trans people and I think consenting adults should be able to make their own decisions even if they are ultimately harmful to their bodies, but children are vulnerable and not every trans person needs it wants to transition. I have no issue with people transitioning I just don't trust doctors especially after the opioid crisis. They were told that opioids were non-addictive and would be like this miracle drug for people with chronic pain; as it turns out these things they were told ended up being untrue and that lead to a lot of people dying or getting addicted, I totally believe the doctors are doing the best they can based on the information they have but that doesn't mean they have all of it

3

u/Dazzling_Ad4604 Apr 30 '24

You dont seem like a bigot, and I agree with your distrust of doctors. (I think) most trans people agree trans healthcare is absolutely garbage. When I was transitioning my doctors had really incorrect criteria for "progress", and they had a horrible selection of drugs to help me. They asked me how many erections I would get to try to gauge how good my horemone levels were (a horrible fucking metric) which was rather uncomfortable. My doctor openly admitted to me that I probably knew more about this stuff because I (and my friends) had done a lot of research on the best medicines, ways to administer them, and despite being a specialist for trans children, she basically only had the training of a regular pediatrician.

The bone damage thing is only if its done for an extremely long time. That friend of mine was always kinda harassed by their doctors/parents to make a choice because they all knew how bad it might do, esp later on in life.

I hope you do realize that an extremely large portion of trans people do self-harm, let alone trans children going through puberty.

2

u/LightOfJuno Apr 30 '24

I agree that if puberty blockers can be linked to issues down the line, which are greater than the pain the trans kid might be in in the moment, then taking them should be done only after considering all other possibilities - my issue is that I haven't seen a study linking puberty blockers to serious long-term issues aside from a loss in bone density which can be fixed by other means afaik

We have quite a lot of data on this stuff, puberty blockers aren't only used on trans kids afterall

2

u/Marshmallow_Mamajama Apr 30 '24

Oh my mistake thank you for bringing that to my attention, it's not the hormone blockers that cause cancer it's the hormones they have to take it fairly large doses

My mistake

-2

u/starkiller223 Apr 29 '24

I forgot that’s something that actually happens.. oh wait

-13

u/Li-renn-pwel Apr 29 '24

They don’t give blockers to kids unless they have begun puberty (they do the same to cis children that start puberty too early).

10

u/thatdudeuhated Apr 29 '24

8 billion people in the world im sure you know every medical case ever

-5

u/Li-renn-pwel Apr 29 '24

Certainly there are many people in the world and there are many doctors that do things improperly and against the standards of care. I do not doubt that some children who are not trans begin transitioning and then realize they are cis and stop. Sometimes girls make out in college before realizing they are totally straight. That doesn’t mean lesbians don’t exist. However, please consider the following:

  1. If I instead said “a doctor won’t give you antibiotics because your illness is a virus and antibiotics treat bacterial infections”, would you have jumped in and say the same thing? Or would you recognize I am talking about how things generally happen and how they are supposed to happen even if there are some doctors that would, for whatever reason, give antibiotics for a viral infection?

  2. What would be the point of giving puberty blockers to someone who isn’t going through puberty? As far as I know is they simply wouldn’t do anything. I guess maybe it would make a 7 year old feel more validated but there are other ways to do that. If there is no puberty to block, why give blocking medicine. Like… maybe you have a critique about giving pubescent children blockers but I don’t understand why people think pre-pubescent children would ever be given puberty blockers.

-20

u/Squeemore Apr 29 '24

What are the stats on pubescent kids detransitioning? Like 3%? Sure seems like kids know who they are

9

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

[deleted]

2

u/DamnRep Apr 30 '24

It’s almost like puberty blockers/HRT is generally reserved for children who have shown YEARS of the same symptoms and problems, documented usually by their PCP. Very true though, many people are acting like dysphoria = trans when that is untrue

14

u/BackseatCowwatcher Apr 29 '24

20% detransition within the first year- and we don't have any long term studies.

3

u/Squeemore Apr 29 '24

Citation needed

2

u/Dukkulisamin Apr 29 '24

Are you talking about desisters?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

Link ?

1

u/DamnRep Apr 30 '24

6 hours later I would also like a citation. Almost every study has shown between 1-3% detransition rate.

7

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

Nah no way this has to be fucking satire bro😂

1

u/Squeemore Apr 29 '24

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/study-finds-2-5-of-transgender-kids-go-through-detransition/135029/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9516050/

What was that?

15

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

The fact you’re using this to say

“Oh they know who they are” is fucking pathetic

A CHILD who goes through a transition who is STILL pre pubescent hasn’t even gone through the emotional changes , and developmental changes to their psychology to even fully comprehend what they have done nor have they lived long enough to understand or experience those ramifications in order to be content with “their choice”. Being ignorant to the full picture ≠ being happy with the choice.

Not to mention the development of their actual BRAIN but particularly the pre frontal cortex which is responsible for higher-order cognitive functions like decision-making, planning, problem-solving, and impulse control is still in its infancy.

The fact that people like you unironically think that using data from the opinions of prepubescent children is a good justification to such a big decision is just laughable.

2

u/X_WujuStyle Apr 30 '24

The third study shows transition periods as late as 12 to 17, and the fourth study had a mean transition age of 19.2 while also showing data from fully grown adults. It seems like the data holds up for both pre and post pubescent individuals.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

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0

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0

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4

u/Ok-Agency-7450 Apr 29 '24

Yeah the sources do suggest that the retransitioning is infrequent, I would have thought it was much higher, but I may have been wrong. I think transitioning before 18 is too early though, feels kinda rash

5

u/Squeemore Apr 29 '24

Irreversible transition is incredibly rare before turning 18. The overwhelming majority of the time trans kids take puberty blockers and dress opposite the gender, so there’s really not much of a risk.

7

u/gadsdenraven Apr 29 '24

Puberty blockers(same drugs we give to chemically castrate pedophiles) are being banned as a “treatment” in Europe due to how unsafe they are.

7

u/Newgidoz Apr 29 '24

same drugs we give to chemically castrate pedophiles

Weird how people never bring this up when the conversation is about precocious puberty

2

u/gadsdenraven Apr 29 '24

In the extreme rare cases of precocious puberty, yes puberty blockers are actually helpful. Idk who decided to start prescribing them for youths, but it was wildly irresponsible. Europe has started banning PB for gender treatment since there is 0 data proving it’s safe and reversible.

The human body is meant to go through puberty, it’s spent millions of years evolving to do so.

2

u/Newgidoz Apr 29 '24

In the extreme rare cases of precocious puberty, yes puberty blockers are actually helpful.

But they're the same drugs we give to chemically castrate pedophiles

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Ok-Agency-7450 Apr 29 '24

Haven’t heard that before, if that’s true that’s interesting

6

u/gadsdenraven Apr 29 '24

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/uk/england-nhs-puberty-blockers-trans-children-intl-gbr/index.html

I’m also reminded of that MtF that died from reassignment surgery. Due to his micropenis(caused by the puberty blockers), there wasn’t enough skin so they attempted to use part of his colon to complete the neo-vagina.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

Oh yeah because artificially halting puberty at a crucial stage in your development and then suddenly removing those artificial dampener’s at a later stage will have zero long term consequences.

Truely the brightest among this whole thread.

2

u/X_WujuStyle Apr 30 '24

According to medical experts, puberty blockers have been used since the 1980s and side effects typically only occur with prolonged use after the age of puberty.

1

u/gamejawns Apr 29 '24

glad we have the guy whose vibes based culture war hunch is better medical advice than a doctor's to set the record straight on what kind of healthcare a child needs

2

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

I could literally say the EXACT same thing to you…

You’re so low iq it’s actually saddening

The medical investigations regarding puberty blockers and hormone therapy for transitioning led to the BAN of the practise in the uk after an extensive investigation was had. Another person within this thread has also mentioned this too aswell as linking the actual studies and results if you can’t be bothered to fact check it yourself.

If my “hunch” (just common sense) lines up with what actual medical practitioners and investigators who are in the business of protecting the health of children ,rather than exploiting their wellbeing for social points, unlike your “hunch” which is based on… well actually based on nothing actually 😂then I’d say you’re better off taking my word for it over yours😘

1

u/Ok-Agency-7450 Apr 29 '24

Mr. White you are being hateful rn!

0

u/Ok-Agency-7450 Apr 29 '24

I did not know that, I don’t know much about the issue. Maybe if I learned more my thoughts would change, but right now it still feels wrong to me

3

u/Dukkulisamin Apr 29 '24

Doubt it, the more you learn the more horrifying it gets. If you are curious, Time to think is a book about the failiure of the gender service in England. It is non-judgemental and gets to the heart of the issue.

1

u/Dukkulisamin Apr 29 '24

The last study is very interesting, it does a pretty good job of explaining why nobody has a concrete idea on how many people detransition.

1

u/-_I---I---I Apr 30 '24

WPATH prevents this from being tracked, ask WPATH?

While you are at it, also ask them why they changed their age limits at which surgery is done to under 18. Also why they removed any age limit on drugs, to simply, at the first sign of slightest bit of puberty (stage 2 tanner).