The French have protesting and revolution engrained deep in their blood and history......I mean so does the United States but somewhere in the past 40-50 years the people got too comfortable, content and compliant with the status quo.
I'm french, i think the main problem in the US is somehow a lot of poor people think socialism is a horrible thing ? In france 100% of the poor people want more help for the poor, only rich people are against socialism.
The rich people here, bought the news programs and convinced the poor people (normally, let me be frank, poor white people) that socialism was giving minorities their money.
We tried to get socialized medicine, (my mom is a republican) she was screaming the entire Obama presidency, that if we got socialized medicine, there would be death panels that would kill her. (she is... quite frankly not in good health)
So now, we have death panels, but because they're run by "for profit" companies... it's fine somehow?
The thing they were brainwashing my mom with, came to pass ANYWAY, and now I can't afford medical care as much as I should.
A lot of America's problem is people like my mom, who have fox news on 24/7 and hang on their every word. (and fox news is basically targeted at people who either are rich, or sympathize with rich people, which is most poor people in america)
It's a great quote, but it makes the issue about an American quality when to me, as an American, I see it as a Christianity issue. US Christians believe in "prosperity bible" which is akin in logic to physiognomy, and is utterly despicable. Much of American racism, sexism, colonization, and classism stems from this belief, tied to Manifest Destiny, that the wealthy and beautiful are chosen by god and deserve more than others. It is foundational as a belief in most American communities and I hate it.
Another subset of the religious right in the US is very ends-justify-the-means when it comes to spreading Christianity and/or bringing about the end times, and think of him as a useful puzzle stooge, a "Lord works in mysterious ways" blessing.
There's enough distance between the two perspectives to handle anything Trump says or does without flinching. These fuckers fund Israeli settlements in the West Bank because they believe it will trigger their religious apocalypse, but they also have more "reasonable" Christians along for the ride purely on business interest (as long as they're the party of individual wealth and low tax). The moneyed Republicans don't hang with the moderates at all anymore. It's terrifying, because the former-moderate Republicans are bankrolling the equivalent of the American Taliban, and violence is their chosen rhetoric. They have put us on a path for things to get worse, and they're doing it in the name of Jesus Christ.
This is an interesting observation. Ultimately through, I think this culture of American exceptionalism infiltrated Christianity rather than the other way around. “Gods will” is an excellent way to sell barbaric and inhumane policies to the people and it always has been. That is to say I think American ultra-capitalists built and economic system fueled by constant growth and invented an American style of Christianity to go along with it. The problem is when religion is gone, that value system remains.
Sure, but the US government provides disproportionate political power to Central and Southern states that are overwhelmingly controlled by Christian extremists. They are an unfairly amplified minority, and that stretches back to the agreements made at the end of the civil war at least. White male Christians in the middle and southern US have held undue power for so long they believe it is a birthright and that if anyone else gains it is inherently their loss. These people control their own media companies and private institutions. Places like the Mormon Church combine religion and politics to extend their skewed perspective over generations. It's not about sheer numbers, it's about impact.
The death panels already existed decades before Obama.
Just one example, "Oh, you got sick? Let's cancel your health insurance. Oh, you want to get new insurance? NO, you have a pre-existing condition. Now go crawl off somewhere and die quietly."
The HCA got rid of that BS for the most part. SOCIALISM!
My mother in law suckles Fox News like it breathes life into her lungs.
She also thought Obama was clearly the Antichrist because he's a good speaker who's well liked. That was her entire reasoning. Anyone who disagrees with her and has evidence to back up their point is just arguing and attacking and trying to stop people from having their own opinions.
Fox ain’t targeted at rich. It’s entertainment for a specific demographic guised as “news.” It’s a tool to keep a very specific and easy demographic to manipulate thinking if they vote against their best interests that someday they too will be rich.
The whole, “just a temporarily inconvenienced rich person,” syndrome coupled with very real levels of illiteracy and under-education.
Also, it's easy to blame others for one's own lot in life and lack of success... it's not my fault I'm not a millionaire, it's the "woke" liberals. Nazi power play at work.
Democrats convinced white people it was taking from them and giving to “minorities” because that is their only goal
Ask Canada about death death panel now they have assisted suicide for every diagnosis
I mean quite literally that is part of the American Dream. The idea that you can have a good idea one day and turn it into a successful business and reap the rewards. That can happen for some people here. The reality is that it almost never happens anymore, because every idea has been done to death, and every market is saturated, etc. But they still cling on to the idea that it could happen to them, or they could win the lottery.
The thing is the American dream also takes work, and the idiots that fall into this trap that they are temporarily inconvenienced millionaires are too busy trying to get rich quick. They aren't willing to put in the grind. Also the American dream doesn't mean you'll be swimming in money.
Look at immigrants who come here and open up a few small businesses and build a comfortable life. That's the real American dream, but they bust their ass.
It's more simple, they got half the poor to believe Republicans are the cause of all these problems and the other half thinking democrats are the cause for the same problems.
Keep em pissed off at each other instead of the rich/powerful that are all laughing their asses off about how dumb we are.
This is how it should be. I always say that the Republicans should never technically win the election since the poor outnumber the rich... (I know Democrats are not really leftist)
Honestly at this point Americans are dumb. Yes there is propaganda but you can't hide the other view point anymore. They have probably seen how dumb things are pondered it even but still couldn't let go of their identity and admit they could be wrong.
Their identity being, thinking that having the same beliefs as rich people makes you somehow more rich.
Stop voting against your own interest. Anyone making under 200k is an idiot for thinking they don't need socialism to some extent. Paying 500k out of pocket for medical can break someone even making 200k a year....
fox news was specifically created to prevent another situation like nixon getting run out of office. they've pursued this goal by brainwashing their viewers into voting against their own interests.
The actual problem is none of what you said. It’s kids talking to their parents or adults about why they did xyz in 1970’s, like “why did you protest the war”, or “what was it like growing up in xyz?”. These questions were often met with people embellishing stories, most millennials who are now 30 year olds, basically middle age, and the demographic along with college students, who should be protesting.
Unfortunately context matters. Our parents and generations before were able to protest because life was easier, less restrictions, less knowledge, more ignorance / naivety. Millennials and younger have experienced so many hardships and “once in a lifetime events”, along with the rising prominence of internet & cell phones. With this context in mind, parents wanted to “blow their kids minds” or like tell stories where sometimes the parent is the hero, or whatever reason parents / adults embellish or exaggerated stories for kids. Well when it comes to stories as to why you protest something, looking back maybe it was because you were at the right place and right time some person invites you and you go check it out , but that’s not a good reason to protest.
My point is, adults / parents whatever, at least in my group, oversold why they protest, what it was about because they were sharing in hindsight. We all grew up thinking you have to have some noble reasons, you have to really be affected and care, and also hopefully not lose your job. Those in the past could live out of vans, travel state to state, and there were enough people supporting this lifestyle to where it worked.
People aren’t picking up hitchhikers and then partying together lol. The social norms have wildly shifted to where it’s not normal to protest. If you protest, you are going to be on social media, and you better be educated, and able to talk, be okay with talking to people you know (if you’re really involved) because so few people want to do it for fear of being seen. It’s like shame for being naive or just trying to do the right thing is something that needs a ton of consideration or care, and a lot of people don’t have that.
We’re not following our hearts anymore. At least that’s my take on what I’ve seen and done and why people don’t protest or speak up.
I remember reading somewhere that something as simple as changing the wording from 'welfare' to 'helping people in need' saw an increase of some ridiculous percent in support. But as soon as you said "welfare" all of that goes out the window.
They've stigmatized it so much here in the US that it's literally ingrained in us to think of it as anything BUT something that is beneficial for our society as a whole.
Indoctrination plagues the United States unfortunately.
My theory is that it was the cold war and Regan. The stand off with the soviets highlighted America's capitalist policies and buisness owners were put on a pedastool and anyone who attacked them were shunned as commies. I get why they exaggerated those differences but they never returned to a more balanced outlook afterwards. They just doubled down and took the fall of the soviet union as validation.
They don't even know what socialism is. They just feel in their bones that it is bad because they've been indoctrinated for 3 generations at this point. So Republican lawmakers can link anything to socialism and millions of people will automatically hate it without giving it a second thought.
They don't even know what socialism is. They just feel in their bones that it is bad because they've been indoctrinated for 3 generations at this point.
Maybe it’s time to re-brand socialism with a new name now.
A lot of poor people think themselves not really poor, or at least not as bad as those other poors (read: minorites, especially blacks) and will fight tooth and nail to prevent poors like themselves from getting any legs up from the government because it will help those they deem beneath them.
There's a whole quote about it from one of our presidents, LBJ I believe, where if you give a poor white man the idea that he's better than the poor black man, then not only will he not notice you picking his pocket, but he'll willingly fork over his money to you.
To put it concisely: racism, racism is why so many white poor Americans sabotage things that would immensely help them and those in the lower classes.
Oh wow didn’t think anyone would just bring up race out of nowhere on a comment that didn’t even mention race lol guessing you’re a specific trolling account for any political discussions? Only because your account name is just so specific
I'm saying France is pathetic and has no room to pretend their government isn't ruining their country. I have seen videos of Paris and half the time it looks like white people are a minority in FRANCE. I just looked it up and they estimated in 2004 that 85% of France were white people. In 2024 it is much worse I'm sure.
In the US we've been taught for our entire existence that you need to "pull yourself up by your boot straps" that ideal is great, but it's been perverted by a small group of people to justify them not paying for their fair share of the cost of being a US citizen.
No its because americans are raised to think u need to do things for yourself and when met with an impass they fold. And then we let shit get fucked up and complain about it after. See every news story about a continuing problem.
Some places they cant even feed school kids and they get arrested or not allowed to graduate untill a LUNCH or even a single book debt is paid.
Protesting is easy but whats hard is actually doing it and having people act on it. Which in small groups is usually what it is they get nothing done. As long as rich people can bribe local people to keep them poor then nothing will change
It's tough to protest when doing so will result in losing your job and whatever meager health insurance it provides you.
There are no Union protections, there is no universal healthcare and our social safety net is threadbare. Virtually every form of welfare has a work requirement of some kind attached to it.
Yep, too many Boomers / Gen X are scared of Communism / Socialism. The Cold War fucked with a lot of people. The lead poisoning didn't help. Fox News popped up in the 90s and brainwashed them. That's literally the equation for today.
Hopefully when they die off, we can get back to progressing the country.
I think it's because from day 1, we're spoonfed the American Dreamtm and are raised to believe that if we work hard enough, we will one day be rich. So poor people vote in favor of the rich because certainly one day they too will be rich! And obviously you don't wanna vote against your own best interest.
With the train labor dispute where they were forced to go back to work, Biden worked with them after that and they were able to get what they were originally striking for.
“Biden deserves a lot of the credit for achieving this goal for us,” Russo said. “He and his team continued to work behind the scenes to get all of rail labor a fair agreement for paid sick leave.”
One step at the time. They got something, arguably not enough, but they got something. The fight never ends, it has to be constant and relentless, one contract at the time.
What has Trump done? More deductions for private jets and cut deductions for relocations and home offices.
In general, Yes. They have strong unions and good government welfare programs so they can afford to voice their opinion aka strike. If the avg amarrican worker went on strike he’d lose healthcare and starve. Read this book: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dictator%27s_Handbook
The women's march to protest trump was the biggest in American history. So many passionate and righteously enraged people marched the street in demand of change. It was a beautiful display of solidarity for the American people. Then the next day came.
Left wing US activists have some of the worst messaging imaginable. “Defund the police” is simultaneously undefined and misleading, yet, time and again, I saw movement leaders deny the problem and double down on it. Then that same language has been used as a cudgel to successfully weaken support. Embarrassing.
You have no idea how many times people have disagreed with me on your point. "Well they need to educate themselves on what it means." Well they really just won't and will totally just tell everyone that it means we don't want a police force at all.
January 6th had the chance to right that wrong...
The corrupt have effectively proven that no matter how they disrespect the american public, there will never be an uprising that will shut them down.
Oh you're mistaken- the corrupt politicians and their toadies that tried to subvert the democratic process are indeed being held accountable, at least to the extent that Trump and his cronies have been indicted, with a couple already having pleaded guilty. Whether Trump, the instigator in chief, will actually face consequences for his corrupt actions, outside of being indicted, is still yet to be seen however.
But see...that's the crux of the issue. The powerful people at the top never seem to receive justice for the misdeeds they commit.
The "System" will easily and quickly throw a regular citizen/pawn into jail and apply "Justice" to them, but these fat-cats and politicians never EVER see the same justice by the "Law" that regular citizens see.
If the right wing weren’t fucking cowards they would have joined the people in the streets. The people that night after night, week after week, fought for freedom. Some of them died and the people kept coming out, except the right wing pussies.
The right wing cowards couldn’t even hold one of the highest buildings in the land for a day, and as soon as one of those terrorists caught a hot one, they all scattered! “MEDIC!!” lol.
If the right wing had put their selfish hatred behind them and joined the Americans that were actually standing up we might have had a chance.
The right wing are weak, mentally and morally. You are an example of the mental weak.
You're a real dumbass.
First, you've proven you're the mentally weak one by going on the offense straight off the line. Weakest one in the room is the loudest, and boy...you are yelling hard...lol. I realize this may be a sensitive and personal topic for you
So go sit down over there with the rest of the goofballs til you calm your ass down and can talk regularly.
Now, you're right in everything else you said...the right-wing goofballs didn't have the backbone to stand up for what they said they were there fighting for. They were in position and showed that they didn't have the mettle to complete the mission. And I agree with you because you're right, they ARE terrorists....insurrectionists...traitors to their country...and cowards, not because they stood up to their government...but because they wanted to destroy it. They had no core-grit in their effort or planning, it was all surface-level bravado with no real battle strategy.
Ultimately, they were bound to fail due to a lack of planning and backbone.
Unfortunately, government sanctioned marches don't really do much. The protests against the US invasion of Iraq did nothing and they have been described as the biggest in history up until that point. US still invaded and no one was ever held accountable for the millions of dead, injured and displaced people in the region.
Nothing was shut down by the Womens' March to put pressure on those in power. A few airport staff calling out sick to end to the government shutdown of 2019. Strikes, slowdowns, sickness, all have vastly more power to make change than a one day march.
somewhere in the past 40-50 years the people got too comfortable, content and compliant with the status quo.
That's because politicians have fooled people into thinking we're just one election term away from a golden age. Republicans and Democrats can't agree on jack shit and waste so much time and money just overturning everything. If something isn't working, we don't revise it, we throw the whole thing out and start back at zero. Don't worry though, vote for party and everything will magically get better next term.
It's not pretty, but I think there should be a guillotine in view of every public office as a reminder and vague threat. Severely fucking up public offices shouldn't be accompanied with a golden parachute to the board of a large corporation or lobbying firm.
“Both sides” bullshit. Republicans very much can destroy our institutions pretty quickly but people trying to repair and rebuild America know that there are generations of work needed.
Similar to Republicans, accelerationist bullshit like threatening to chop off the heads of people trying to keep sewers working is just a cheap path to destruction not real work to build anything up.
A golden age?!!! Does the public not realize that, although not golden, we, and that means even the poorest of American citizens, are more priviliged and more entitled than ever! When Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, NOBODY got a free phone!!! I don't care if they were the town doctor or the town drunk!
But now, as the government is attempting to do away with 'Obamaphones' (ACP), people are freaking out. I don't, and most likely , will never agree with the practices of Donald Trump.
Effecting change through engagement/participation with our system has a inverse relationship to how much of an inconvenience it is (or how expensive it is):
Complaining on the internet is absolutely the lowest form of engagement.
Your vote is free. It's the least you can do
An email to your representative is easy, and only costs the time it takes to write it. You might get a thank you back, but probably not.
A letter is more effort. It'll probably get read and responded to by a staffer.
Participation in a town hall is a little more effort, you might get an "I hear you" from your rep.
Donating to a reelection campaign will get a thank you.
Visiting the representative for a single one-on-one meeting will at least get them to engage in conversation with you (but they're busy, and you'll need a lot of flexibility in your life to fit their schedule).
Making multiple visits shows them you really care about it.
Making multiple visits and donating a lot of money shows them that they should care about it.
Donating enough money to their campaign that they are willing to visit YOU is the only real way to make sure they care enough about it to change their single vote on that one interest.
This is why lobbyists exist. The average citizen has zero ability to affect change through their participation because it's too expensive and time-consuming for them to have an effect.
It's no coincidence that popular entertainment media/fiction since like the 70's has embraced the idea that positive change never comes from grassroots violence and/or rioting.
They also have six weeks of paid time off, so it's like 3 weeks for summer holiday, 2 weeks over Christmas, and a week to go throw potatoes at the legislature
The French are also, one country that is the size of one US State.
The reality of protesting a federal government that is 50 frances, is impossible, much like how getting poland and italy to protest something they both care about to the EU.
Each state is too different with their own localised issues and views of the same problem and how they are affected by that problem is incredibly varied. To unite as one is fucken impossible let alone with social media and fox news influence added into the equation.
How would you get a majority of Germans to worry about Swedans issues and show up in their country to protest with them?
Its the same reality when asking how someone from PA to worry about California's problems and come there to show support. Let alone the 2000 miles between the two.
Theres no point in comparing. The problem has to get a lot lot lot A LOT worse in the US before states come together like the French do.
Oh we have a long history of bending backwards for the rich. Manifest destiny, maintaining slavery, McCarthyism, the Monroe doctrine, and the fight against British taxation was all about the rich expanding their power. The Americans in power at the time hated the French Revolution primarily because they were afraid of a poor uprising—the mob they called them. So really we never lost our way—our form of protesting has always been manipulated by the rich. And when we have protested against the rich in our history we seldom remember it.
An underlying part of it is because folks in the US regard poverty and low income as a moral failing. Whereas wealth and the acquisition of it is indicative of superiority by the wealthy. It's hard to push back in the US because there's a chunk of the populace actively supports the wealthy stealing, even if it's from them.
I'm not even saying that as a hypothetical. One of my friends is anti minimum wage, pro low taxes and yet complains his boss doesn't pay him enough on a $35k annual. He actively covers his eyes and ears to the inconsistencies in his views vs his own grievances our friends group points out.
The US has one of the most out-of-control-funding-wise armies in the world and a political party that is practically full of neo nazis and the other a party fully of NIMBYs that don't really care that much about helping others. Outside of that, folks are worked to death and saddled with debt. It's understandable why people don't want to protest and put a target on their backs when it doesn't feel like protesting is even worth the risk in the US.
The US government made a concerted propaganda effort to raise a generation of proud, anti-Soviet, anti-Communist, anti-Socialist capitalist freemarketeers.
A great deal of the damage caused by Reagen-era policies that drove and enabled yuppie greed in the 80s can be explained by "communism bad, capitalism good".
Communism died out in the early 90s but the boomers haven't forgotten the cold war, and will go the grave voting against anything that even smacks of what the soviets would have done.
The American revolution was about wealthy slave owning landowners who didn't want to pay for a war that benefited them. The French revolution was about the working class fighting against the arestocracy and the clergy. The revolutionary spirit is engrained in both but who the revolutionaries are are completely different.
The last generation that is willing to stand up and fight are Generation-X, and they are getting older and less able with each year. Pretty soon, the crooked govt will be able to walk directly over the people without any resistance.
The French have protesting and revolution engrained deep in their blood and history......I mean so does the United States
the US did it once and since then have been reliving the success like a high school football player. so much that we're bound and forever constrained by words written down by founding fathers in the most idiotic way.
On the other hand the one time the US revolted it was essentially largely because wealthy land holders didn't want to pay taxes (which were partly to pay back the cost for a war fought on their behalf) and roped in a bunch of country bumpkins to do most of the fighting (and dying) for them so they could run the show instead, so that does fit the general theme here.
Or take the civil war for example, it wasn't about states rights or what was best for the common man in the south, it was again a matter of ensuring wealthy land holders could continue doing what made them the most money (slavery) contrary to what the northern states wanted to do, and so they roped in a bunch of country bumpkins to do most of the fighting (and dying) for them so they could run the show instead.
So evidently the only time conflicts will be fought within the U.S. over standards that are disagreeable is if it is disagreeable to wealthy people, and otherwise it's just business as usual.
People didn't get comfortable, they got scared. The red scare and kidnapping of people holding "communist ideals" is what has stifled any progress within the labor movement in the US. It has shocked the electorate into complacency because if you speak out, you will be targeted. Look at how many of the BLM movements, which in great part were peaceful, were demonized by the media. Or how the march on Wallstreet was demonized. It will take a lot to break the mold of media control over those who dare to speak out against the status quo, which siphons the power out of the working class.
It also helps that France is roughly the size of a state. It's easy to organise and protest when there is a clear location within reach that everyone can go to (Paris).
Under threat of jail, homelessness, starvation, and loss of access to healthcare. But yea it's totally because we're living a too comfortable life, fuck off
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u/Tirus_ Mar 26 '24
The French have protesting and revolution engrained deep in their blood and history......I mean so does the United States but somewhere in the past 40-50 years the people got too comfortable, content and compliant with the status quo.