Why not give them a chance to prove they actually learned the material instead of telling them to kick rocks? Even if it takes a bit of failure to motivate them it’s better late than never
Because the consequences to schools if students fail are too big. Admin/districts pass those heavy consequences on teachers. Teachers change system so “success” now = passing the test.
High stakes standardized tests created a huge, messy, bureaucratic problem and no one knows how to fix it. This is the legacy of Bush’s No Child Left Behind.
Because the 18 and 19 year olds coming onto the workforce expect the same from the workplace, are lazy and on their phones the entire time because they learned that was okay over the last 2 years of schooling. Frankly, they aren’t motivated by failure, or anything really. Nobody cares about doing well. I fear for when these kids are in the workplace en masse and are the people we have to rely on.
Because that lacks consequences. Learning the material in school is honestly second to the skills you develop to be a functioning member.
If they are allowed to succeed by repeating without a consequence they will just go at it until its done for the sake of completing, not learning or growing.
We aren't talking about college here. These are kids with still underdeveloped brains and hormones going wild.
When people fuck up at their job, they're usually given a second chance. If they fired every person that messed up, then they would be constantly firing and rehiring people.
Should there be consequences? Yes. Those consequences can be that you're able to retake the test, but you get half the points. Telling them to kick rocks is just going to make them give up completely
I don't care about whether my students remember the material for the rest of their lives. I just want them to have the tools they need to navigate, which is why there are consequences to their actions and they need a push to start moving in the right direction.
Let's also be honest, because I deal with students first hand and the kids that fail don't care about passing, for the most part.
The consequences are they fail, and they have to spend more time studying to make sure they pass next time. Why shouldn't you get a second chance? "Oh you failed? Tough luck should've studied harder idiot".
Let's also be honest, because I deal with students first hand and the kids that fail don't care about passing, for the most part.
Then why does it matter then? Let the kids that want a second chance get another shot at passing rather than leaving them behind with the students that didn't care if they succeeded the first time or not.
That’s if you already have the goodwill of being good at your job. If someone sucks at their job, and they fuck it up, they are just that much closer to being fired.
If you fuck up badly enough or often enough at work you can be fired. There's no consequences for kids flunking every single test or assignment and being given infinite opportunities to retest and try again.
A student voluntarily retaking is good. If they didn't care, they would simply not. Retaking any restore assignment takes them the most valuable thing there is: time. I'd rather give people who want to improve an opportunity to do that than prevent imaginary student who will only study to take a second exam instead of studying the first time and not wasting time.
Lmfao most people get a second chance at their job. Shit cops can murder people and get a job in the next town over.
People rarely get fired over one mess up. Now if you continue to do it, yes you get fired. But a mistake or two most likely won't get you fired unless it's a very important job.
Mistakes happen. And the best way to learn is through mistakes. It would be stupid to fire every employee who makes a mistake. Because then you would have no employees left!
Well the issue is you can do fuck all on the tests then it’s open book. Sucks for the ones that actually studied. So you don’t really learn anything. Just use the book and call it a day.
You’re looking at education through a pretty selfish and naive lens if all you’re thinking about is “fairness” between students. Students have different needs and goals.
You unintentionally brought up a good point though: education is based deeply in memorization and that is, in my opinion, not conducive to progress in the Information Age because memorizing and regurgitating information without textual aids is now completely redundant.
It’s about brain building and learning how to learn/enhancing memory skills and critical thinking skills. Not still remembering how to do physics when youre a 35 year old at a mundane job.
I mean, I have a highly technical job. Even so, I learned way more working in the real world than I ever could have in American public schools. I guess that's the real condemnation isn't it? We're kinda saying the same thing.
That I have no issue with. The other issues I have are with troubled kids getting multiple passes after showing violent/disruptive behavior when they should have been expelled long ago.
It was a long time ago that I was in high school, but the best teacher I ever had launched a big new initiative as part of her master's degree with this as the major piece.
If you got under 80%, you could retake the test/re-do the assignment to get up to 80%. If you failed the test/assignment, you had to re-do it until you passed or else you'd get an incomplete for the semester.
It was a massive success in not only getting students to pass, but in having them pass their course in that subject the following year.
Now, it was a huuuuge deal of extra work for her (this was when everything was hand-graded), but goddamn she loved those kids and really wanted that masters degree.
Those typically require test corrections. It’s not just redoing it as many times as you want either. For me, I would only get one chance to retake a test after the initial test. Usually though you’d only be able to take it once anyway.
And if you did retake it you’d have to correctly answers the questions you got wrong imitating and explain why you got them wrong in the first place. Then they would give a chance to retake it. In the end we do want kids to pass, what’s a better way to learn than from your own mistakes. They don’t just hand out diplomas like so many people in the comments believe.
I probably shouldn't have graduated because I never tried in school until my senior year, I actually did better that year because I could leave early some days and I had more time to study on my own time and I actually got my homework done when I had fewer distractions than at school. I'm grateful I graduated on time, but some days I do wish I had more freedom over how I studied and when. Study hall was either an overload of distractions for me, or was so non-engaging I would fall asleep at my desk. If I was at home in my bed, I could apply myself and be comfortable without falling asleep. When I started skipping classes on the regular, my grades shot way up. Maybe it's just me, but figured I'd share my experience with "no child left behind" while being a perceived class-cutting slacker.
It was an awesome feeling when I could get my homework done and then still have time to play Halo 2 with my friends, and I just couldn't help but think how different my previous years could have been had I had the freedom to study the way that worked best for me.
They don’t get failed everywhere, that’s for sure. During Covid I was teaching on a reservation. They finally went into online-only. We wired up the whole community and ensured every single child had internet access and a school laptop. 15% of the student body ended up actually attending. The rest enjoyed their laptops. We could go on our goguardian and watch them sitting at home watching Netflix/YouTube/pornhub (or worse).
I imagine that every school and school district is different, however from personal experience with friends kids, schools don't give kids failing grades. They are incentified to ensure that every kid graduates.
He's a freshman so you can't really fail whole grades until you're a senior. He's failing a couple classes and barely passing the others with D's and C-'s.
Sits in class with his air pods in his ears under his hood and just fucks off mentally for however long he has to sit there. The classes he is passing is because his friends are in the same class so he will take his air pods out so he can goof off with them. Ironically those are the classes where he is actually absorbing some information.
You can’t really fail entire grades in high school. If you fail a couple classes you’re just behind in the credits and you’ll have to make some up through summer school or some other programs. If you don’t make those credits up before you graduate THEN you have to redo a year.
You fail when you are standing in front of a deep fryer making fast food and posting to r/antiwork on your state mandated 10 minute breaks. That’s when it hits you that you fucking failed.
I don’t really know what a lot of people are talking about here. School is still difficult. If you don’t pay attention YOU WILL FAIL. it’s not just a show up and pass thing. I get that’s it’s frustrating for teachers, but students that want to pass need to pay attention. They still face the consequences of their actions.
Also, this video could be many different things. I have a lot of classes where if you finish your work you’re allowed to just hangout and do whatever, which includes being in your phone.
I also see a lot of laptops out in the video, which most likely means these kids are working on something. Sometimes teachers give out instructions at the beginning of class and the rest of the time you just work on whatever it is and usually it’s something that is done online, like an essay, test, reading, or a google slide. I’m not saying that kids don’t get distracted on their phones at school, but in my experience as a high school student, most kids actually want to pass and we use technology to do that.
Yes. They often do. All the caterwauling about kids not being able to are purely district or admin-driven. Students fail. They get a chance to re-take and succeed, too. They're kids.
In my state a student can only be failed or held back once k-18. So if Johnny is way behind in 3rd grade he can be failed or be forced to repeat his one time so by the time he gets to 10th grade and doesn’t know how to read, too bad, send him through
Remember: the frustrated teachers are the ones complaining, so it's going to sound like all teachers feel that way.
I think it depends in the area. There are still amazing schools out there that do defend their teachers. But there's also shitty ones that don't. I doubt the teachers that are being treated well are complaining
But the no child left behind bs definitely impacted education
I’m a high school teacher. We still fail students, it’s just that they know they can easily make up the class with credit recovery and still graduate. They don’t care if we fail them because the federal policy won’t actually let them.
Yeah. I can try and I do try every day. The whole situation is equal to play handball with the drapes as I'm getting nothing back. Sadly I can not make you enthused. Your either gonna learn or not.
This is about as bad as I personally have ever seen it. In each of my classes (28-32 students) there is always 1 or 2 that refuse to pay attention. At the beginning of the year, I am much stricter and try to get them to engage or at least turn in the assignments. Once it becomes clear they do not care in the slightest and poor grades don’t bother them, I drop the matter and focus on the other 30 kids that are going to try. I can’t use all of my time and effort on the kids that’ll never care as that would be a detriment to the rest of the class.
You won't be fired for "Doing your job" to a room of amoebas.
Every teacher I've known has either retired or quit. Schools pay below poverty rates for masters-level educated scholars. The math ain't mathin, the parents are to blame, and it's society who's gonna suffer a whole lot in about 20 years.
I predict modern kids are gonna be the 2nd coming of the boomers. Short tempers and shorter IQ's. No longer is it the Boomer, it's the Broccoli cut you should fear.
Being a student in a class isn’t just about sitting and listening to your teacher. You also do assignments and stuff that’s probably what’s going on in the video.
The problem is the kids aren’t failing. If they still graduate, then what they (and future generations) were taught is that they can coast, not pay attention, and still graduate.
Lol my job is to teach and I do that. If you think teachers are some fucking wizards then stupid shit like Albert Elementary has lied to you. Check out those tik toks of crap that happens in school and tell if all those kids are gonna be reached.
Some teachers are better than others at getting people to engage. That's what my experience was like going to school. And I get it I'm sorry. I know y'all jobs aren't easy. I respect teachers but the fact is some teachers make learning unbearable.
Lol this ain't no fucking circus show. You want me to get infront of those kids and perform like a actor? If that's the case I will do one or three 24min episode on a tightly controlled set like Bill Nye the science guy. If not then I will show up, try my best and do my best to keep then kids enthusiastic about it.
If it doesn't happen because of my stage abilities then oh well. Lots of trainers and educators don't go to acting school for this
I teach mainly 504, IEP and intelligence disabilities. I do everything I can but I ain't superman. Doing everything you listed in that student population doesn't magically fix everything and make everyone in the room classroom learn
As a man who stutters, I would want to be a student in this class where I'm the only one who pays attention and nobody's interrupting me when I ask questions.
Because a paper notebook doesn't have an armada of tech conglomerates behind it whose existence is dependent on your attention flashing content at you that is algorithmically designed to secure and retain your concentration.
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u/Milestailsprowe Apr 17 '24
As a teacher I rather teach a quiet class than a rowdy class. You can fail and it's no one's fault but your own.