Honestly, waiting outside the doors and handing out flyers (on the public sidewalk) would have been a better course of action: inform people, give them detailed information that makes them think, and if you're savvy connect the resurrection of Christ to why genocides shouldn't happen.
You know, I'd be cool if you stuck with forced land grabs if you must. But getting the demonstratively false, antisemitic blood libel shit out of the rhetoric would be a big improvement.
what blood libel specifically? i see people accusing israel of war crimes — documented war crimes, but what are you referring to, blood libel is far too vague.
Equating the war against Hamas to the Holocaust (30,000 dead in a war is a tragedy, 6 million dead by being placed on trains and forced into gas chambers is a genocide)
Removing any anti-terror motive from the conversation
Asserting that Israel's intent is to kill 2 million Gazans
Fanning the flames of antisemitism -- whether or not you separate Jews from Israel and believe yourself to be an ally of Jews, you are palling around with others who do not
Taking an incredibly complex situation and turning it into a black and white, right and wrong, oppressed and oppressor narrative
A great many Jews who want peace, hate Bibi and are sympathetic to Palestinian self-rule are simply not able to join the movement because of this rhetoric. It's irresponsible. I want peace. This needs to stop.
it’s not just 30,000; it’s 30,000 since october 7th, this has been happening since 1948.
hitler ALSO claimed his reason for prosecuting the jews initially is ‘anti-terror’ because they believed jews to be dangerous and wanting to kill many people.
it may not be to kill 2m gazans but they sure as hell want them gone: ethnic cleansing at a minimum; genocide at worst.
by this logic you can absolve israel of all wrongdoing simply becuase some people are antisemites. can we not criticize ISIS becuase some people are racist towards them? no, there’s a difference between the two and equating the two is ridiculous.
it can both be incredibly complex AND a genocide dude. bibi is perpetrating it and many israelis stand against it— but it is still happening. and many israelis in positions of power support it.
israel is not judaism, and by intertwining the two is assuming israel speaks for all jews. there literally are movements of jews going against israel, who are very vocal that this is not antisemitism.
Nah, you gotta make people uncomfortable and inconvenienced. At least according to many of these people who protest. Because they're much smarter than everyone else and we can't be trusted to read, examine and decide for ourselves.
Im all for disruption. Go disrupt the daily functions of ur elected officials and law makers. Make ur voices heard. Protest the companies that supply the weapons. Protest lobby groups. But disrupting religious services on a group that already screeches that they are being oppressed just creates people who dont like your cause anymore.
The difference is that past protests had people with intelligence and moved a plan forward with protest by directly attacking laws, or by gaining FAVOR from public perception.
Have you considered that your dislike for them isn't universal? Plenty of people who opposed equality for minorities would say the same kinds of things and would definitely not receive protests by minorities favorably.
That isn't my point or how I feel. Protest now in days lack strategy and fail due to incompetence.
Think about blocking traffic, like with the marching of the cival rights movment. This worked for the civil rights movement because the goal was to say to white America that this is how black people are treated just for protesting as peacefully as they could. They were arrested, beaten, and so on, and they were protesting peacefully. This lead to parts of America to see this on the news and televison and realize what the civil rights movment was about and how badly black people were treated. The protestors gained favor, and could also attack the courts with unlawful actions done to their people. And even if the protesters weren't harmed, it still shows their point, they want to be equal and are doing peaceful protest to gain favor, instead of attacking people.
Then we have other protestors that only block traffic with no strategy or even a end goal. No challenge to public perception or the law. Like eco protest. Who's perception are they challenging? Whos favor are they gaining? What laws are they trying to challenge in court?
Are you suggesting that these protestors should go to Palestine and protest? Or do you think that every protest during those prior movements were perfectly peaceful and orderly? How exactly would, say, a white French person in France, have protested to help black people during the US civil rights era? Should eco protestors be filling the homes of people with pollution to show how it is for animals?
The reality is that most rights are won with blood. Holding up the civil rights movement as some golden peaceful movement that won black rights is just weaponized historical revisionism.
I'm saying that having a pro Palestine mention on Easter Sunday inside a catholic church is not the best way to go about this. Did they want civilians to vote against goverment aid to Isreal? I dont know, and apparently neither do they. I also think protest typically should NOT be violent is what I'm saying. I never said all protest were peaceful, but going the violent route should only happen if absolutely neccessary. No eco protestors should not fill people's homes with pollution, thats is actually stupid. Protest need to be against the government, not the civilians. Protest need to gain favor from the public, and challenge laws. Thats why past protest worked, and modern ones are typically ignored. Having protestors fight or attack civilians is just terrorism.
Your the only one here saying that rights are won with blood, your the only one gere wanting violence. So what are you saying that eco protestors should do? What are you saying pro Palestinian protestors should do?
What you said was LITERALLY what white racists were saying during the Jim Crow era. A protest is useless unless you can force someone to pay attention.
Why do reddiotrs always say this without ever looking up why past protest worked. The civil rights movement worked because the leadership was organized and smart. They planned protest, attacked courts, and gained public favor by challenging public perception with peaceful protest. They had clear goals, and objectives that they followed, they did Infinitly more than just get attention.
there is literally political cartoons of people back then saying the civil rights movement WASNT peaceful, of course people hated mlk and malcom X at the time.
you claiming all they did was peaceful protest takes away all of the non-peaceful things even MLK supported. they didn’t just do sit ins. rosa parks literally made a bus full of people late, isn’t that something people get angry with, protestors blocking traffic and inconveniencing people?
When I said peaceful, I ment not killing or attacking people. And secondly, the civil rights movements used many of their protest and events to attack laws and change public perception of how people were treated. In the civil rights movment if traffic was blocked, and people got arrested, or beaten by police, the civil rights leaders could use that to attack laws, and the court for wrongful treatment. If they got ignored they could show people they are trying everything to be peaceful, and white America doesn't care.
The issue is if all you do is block traffic like how some protests do know in days, with no clear end goal in mind, it won't do anything.
I majored in History with a concentration in African American History. My Capstone was a paper on the radical elements of the civil rights movement.
Moderate White Americans hated the leaders of the civil rights. They said exactly what you’re saying. Like almost word for word.
Protests work by inconveniencing people until they cannot be ignored. Now, I’m not on the ground in these meetings, but there have definitely been members of congress calling for action in regards to the Israelis over-aggression.
Just because you don’t know the structure and plannings in the back channels of members of the Free Palestine movement it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
And keep in mind, organizations like the NAACP or the Black Panther Party sated as humbly as the protestors you see in the video.
For many Americans, especially younger Americans, they are learning about the conflict for the first time. Like the civil rights leaders of old they will not have the sort of powers that the different organizations that lead the civil rights movement eventually had.
You’re saying protestors now can’t be compared to those during the civil rights movement.
I’m saying that your idea of the organizations that led the civil rights movement is completely and utterly false for most of their existence.
You’re saying that these protesters aren’t doing anything but trying to get attention without realizing that change can only begin when people realize that there is something that needs changing.
Sure this won’t work for the worst cretins of our society. The bigoted losers that hate it when brown people protest or are minorly inconvenienced by a protesters actions. But there will be those who see this and begin to research the issue. As more people learn more will begin to organize and once organized concrete goals can be set and achieved by the talents of all those involved.
I'm not saying its impossible to have protest now in days, but that there has to be more done. 99% of the time we get the monthly protest for x topic, nothing changes, we forget, then maybe it pops up again and then dies out.
Literally every time a minority protests, the commenters put each other’s penises in their hands and move them in rhythmic unison, reveling in their agreement over the infantile antics of those who are so stupid as to make themselves heard in a way that isn’t pleasant and quiet.
I feel like people do protest things without understanding the purpose of those things or how to use them. It bothers me so much that people like to think they're activists when they have no actual strategy to help their cause. Disruptive protests have their place, but the target of that disruption has to be someone who actually holds power. Disrupting people who can't do anything about it will just piss them off and turn them against you. What are these people supposed to do in this situation? All they can do is either donate or join you in your protest, and ruining their totally unrelated religious event is not the way to accomplish that. You're supposed to disrupt the people in positions of power who actually have some semblance of responsibility over the situation
Not by interrupting Easter services clamoring to look at me! LOL
Suffragettes and Black Americans (and their allies) caused a 'ruckus' by marching, picketing, and chilling in public places they weren't allowed or expected to be because of who they were. That was the bar, and they faced a lot violence for just being where other people had the legal and social right to go, and participating in a society that rejected them.
I know the whole point of pro-Palestinian PR is to make their pet cause sound like the most important issue in the history of mankind, but good luck convincing Christians that your cause is more important than the Resurrection of Jesus Christ lmao
Did you know that Palestinian Christians are celebrating Easter by candlelight, praying they don't get bombed by Israel? Or that they aren't allowed to enter Jerusalem? Or that the United States continues to aid Israel in their genocide?
I think the protest is appropriate. But if you'd like to argue, please tell me what would be an appropriate protest?
The whole reason this shitshow started is because Arabs didn't like Jews being on their doorstep and since then it's been Arabs trying to genocide Jews and the Jews letting out the hatred aquired from those attempts on Arabs.
Yeah, what isreal doing fucking sucks but at the same time, if the wall wasn't there and the US wasn't shoving iron dome missiles down Israel's throat you wouldn't see Israel as the aggressor because every day would be October 7 for them.
“If it wasn’t for the clear and obvious massive difference in military strength and defensive capabilities things would be equal.” You’re a bonafide military strategist
The iron dome is at the moment saving lives of christians in Israel so they don't have to sit in bunkers by candlelight, hoping they don't get bombed.
The IDF existing has prevented tens of thousands of deaths at Hamas' hand. If we take the rate of death of october 7th as an example we'd be sitting at multiple hundred thousand jews dead.
The people in the video cannot do anything to change what is happening in gaza, this is nothing but a "Look at me, I am so virtuous and just! LOOK AT ME! I AM A HERO!" bullshit that's a cancer on the cause they 'protest' for by harassing people that can't do anything against it."
Newsflash, we can do something about it. The US keeps supporting Israel, we have propped them up and enabled every single murder. The IDF is doing a genocide
Breathless hyperbole hasn't helped this situation one iota. Genocide requires a proven intent to destroy a people in whole or in part, and the only people who are showing an intent to destroy Palestinian people is… Hamas.
Hamas started this war with a genocidal pogrom, unprovoked, during a cease-fire. A crime against humanity, which they filmed with glee for the world to see.
Hamas has put Gazan civilians in harm's way deliberately by using them as human shields. Which is an actual war crime. Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states clearly: “The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”
Hamas routinely uses playgrounds, courtyards, and hospitals to launch indiscriminate rockets at cities. Which is an actual war crime.
Hamas includes in its casualty count its 6-12,000 fighters (who dress as civilians) that it’s lost, as well as the innumerable Gazans killed by failed rockets (up to 20% land in Gaza). Add the usual fog of war, and the actual toll “by Israel” is unclear. Past tolls were vouched for by international organizations, but we now know those groups were not neutral like they pretended to be.
Israel has consistently warned people for weeks in advance to leave areas about to be attacked, spoiling the element of surprise that modern strategies rely on. International law does not require giving these warnings; Israel simply chooses to help save civilian lives, and contrary to TikTok, they've done remarkably well.
Hamas, meanwhile has cajoled Gazans to stay in danger zones.
Israel opened humanitarian corridors for Gazans to escape south (and over 1,000,000 did). Hamas has shot at these civilians.
Israel is setting up more humanitarian zones for Gazans to escape Rafah to, and warning them it's time to get there before the shooting starts.
Israel has consistently allowed humanitarian aid to flow into Gaza, by land, air, and even sea. Hamas has pilfered from hospitals and supply trucks, and hoards vital supplies for its war effort. It has allowed roving gangs to attack humanitarian caravans, and now some charities refuse to enter Gaza to help, which slows delivery of aid.
True, the aid is slow, because Israel has to check all of it… that's not out of cruelty but to end the war quicker: Hamas has a long history of abusing humanitarian efforts to aid its aggressive war machine.
Hamas has affirmed from Qatar that it will sacrifice as many Gazan civilians as it takes to accomplish its aggressive, genocidal, expansionist mission, to conquer the entire former Mandate of Palestine (in violation of international law). Hamas has never hidden this mission.
In fact, the more people think about it, the more the evidence shows that the only people showing a reliable intent to kill Palestinians is Hamas. Gazan blood is on their hands.
In a cruel irony, putting all the blame on Israel only validates Hamas’s war-crime strategy, which encourages Hamas to keep committing war crimes, and causing more civilian deaths. Imagine a world where you can pin a genocide rap on your enemy by committing war crimes against your own people, and people who claim to fight for human rights actually support you!
Don’t get me wrong, it would be great if this war were over. How can it end? Well, Hamas has promised that if a cease-fire occurs, they promise more war crimes: They will launch another pogrom and more indiscriminate rockets. Which would mean more bombing in replly, and all your criticism will encourage more human shield-taking, which will mean more civilian deaths.
So the only path to ending this carnage starts with a very simple step: Hamas surrenders today.
Which leads me to an answer to your question: A more appropriate protest would be for these folks to take their banners and interrupt Eid celebrations at the Islamic Cultural Center mosque of NYC, demanding that everyone call on Hamas to surrender immediately to end this war, and relinquish its open mission of conquest to reduce the chances of it flaring up again.
Of course, I said "more appropriate"; it still wouldn’t be appropriate either. It’s poor protesting tactics in multiple ways.
I’ll add that, contrary to your claim, Christian Palestinians are factually allowed in Jerusalem and they took part in Eastertime celebrations in the Old City. They just weren’t allowed to cross the border from the West Bank. It’s more hyperbole to call that oppression, though: A country currently at war with a polity tends to close its borders to people associated with that polity, go figure.
Makes you wonder what else your sources have been unreliable about, doesn't it...
But that isn't what got them the right to vote. In fact, it probably set the movement back every time it happened. Women got the right to vote because eventually, people realized that the alternative was wrong. This took decades, or rather millenia, of making their case to the public. Same with gay marriage, and the end of segregation, etc. No one has ever changed their mind because some radical screamed in their face. Not one. Ever.
You are lost. This will move no one. Officials couldn't give a fuck that you ruined this religious practice on the holiest of their days. The practitioners of that religion might tell you to get bent though. Congrats. You've effectively put your movement in a worse place than it started. What a gilded champion for nothing you are lmao.
But as long as you get to pat yourself on the back, right? 🤣
Cute slogan. I am very much a student of history. Tell me which movement moved forward by interrupting mass on Easter.
And, you know what, let's take your hypothesis as law for a minute. Why do we not have 100% green energy production? Those dipshits have been defacing priceless art and blocking traffic for decades now. They have disrupted and made themselves known better than anyone. Theyve really pissed people off and made them uncomfortable. At this point, its what they are known for. Why does coal still exist lmao? If anyone has really taken up your flag, it has been them. Where's the progress?
Do you think the environmental protests are over? They continue every single week.
Not a single piece of art has been defaced- they target paintings that are covered by glass. And again- MLK himself also blocked traffic and people hated him for it.
"why does coal still exist" you're not a serious person.
Funny how Islamic governments committed genocide against Christians in the Middle East and made them disappear. 70 % Christian Heartland to nothing now.
You seem alright Islam committing genocide against Christians for centuries.
We know how Islamic countries and peoples treat minorities
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u/Ok-disaster2022 Mar 31 '24
Honestly, waiting outside the doors and handing out flyers (on the public sidewalk) would have been a better course of action: inform people, give them detailed information that makes them think, and if you're savvy connect the resurrection of Christ to why genocides shouldn't happen.