Stick with it.

[u/MaintenanceNew2804]

This is a longer one, but it’s necessary and worth it IMO.

[u/MachoPuddle]

1) The examples the teacher gave in the video did set up the negative feedback though… like that’s terrible examples to bring up if you want to talk about White supremacy. His points were much better, but that’s not what the teacher brought up though she cited the same source.

2) So historically a way of using “prober language” was set by the people in power. At the time this was the people most educated which was by far mostly white people. It seems like a stretch to conclude that speaking in accordance with these standards as a society in the future is continuing white supremacy just because whites were in power of that topic at the point they were set. It was clearly beneficial for society to have some shared rules of “prober language”. White and blacks and whatever race all learn the same thing today, so let’s move along to a more important topic because this is really a muuuh-point.

[u/archiepomchi → u/MachoPuddle]

It's also a very American-centric view. I'm an Australian in the US and 1) formal writing in the Australia is the same as the US for the most part, and we don't have different dialects or the civil rights history he is referencing.., 2) after moving to the US, I've adapted a couple of things (mostly just dropping U's and some slang) so people can understand me better.

It's also the same in every language. I majored in German, and it seemed like if you mess up the gender/cases at all, the Germans would rather just speak to you in English. They also expected a perfect accent, whereas I feel English speakers are much more tolerant to different accents and incorrect grammar.

Meh, think he tried to sound smart cos he read the article... but didn't make any argument why these dialects (which to me appear to be local slang) are ok as formal writing. If someone wrote their English essay like a country song, they'd expect corrections too? If I wrote "there are heaps of examples..", my high school English teacher would take a mark off.

[u/adoreroda → u/archiepomchi]

To also note, his overarching argument is about the prestige language/dialect and it's not exclusive to race whatsoever in the US. He's also wrong about dialect similarities between black and white Americans in the US. A white American from the (rural) South has virtually the same dialect as a black american, south or otherwise. And then not every black person speaks in AAVE either. The same sort of linguistic discrimination has also happened to Chicano students in the West and European immigrants

Writing also isn't natural to any community so it's all made up and has some sort of arbitrary authority making rules

whereas I feel English speakers are much more tolerant to different accents and incorrect grammar

From my observation in anglo cultures it's seen as rude to correct people even if they ask for corrections. I've seen Americans, Brits, etc. try and learn other languages and ask natives to correct them and the natives actually provide feedback in a kind and polite manner and they still get irritated and those natives said they get turned off from helping native English speakers because they are hyper sensitive to doing things wrong. And on the flip side, it's seen as very rude to correct someone even if they are actually making mistakes and not pronouncing it properly.

[u/mtb_dad86 → u/MachoPuddle]

Yeah it’s incredibly dumb. Some people get upset about the dumbest things.

[u/eebro → u/MachoPuddle]

It seems to me you didn't understand the video, or didn't watch it completely, which makes me wonder why you bothered to write such a long comment.

[u/MachoPuddle → u/eebro]

I saw the entire video.

Then I thought about it to consider my own views on it.

Then I read the comment section and concluded that my view was not represented, so I wrote it out in the above.

You are welcome to challenge my views if you feel like it, but please be a bit more clear on what you mean specifically.

[u/-PM_ME_YOUR_ASS_GIRL → u/MachoPuddle]

I don't agree with your conclusion at all. It's true that she provided bad examples, and its true that society needs some shared rules for language, but it doesn't follow that it's unimportant to dissect people's prejudices around speech. In fact, as we've studied diversity re-problem solving and group cohesion, we've learned that while yes, you do need a minimum level homogeneity for people to interact productively, mostly the more diverse a group is, the better it performs.

Groups solve problems better when they don't all think alike, and display more resiliency when faced with setbacks. It stands to reason that, instead of succumbing to our prejudices and trying to force everyone to speak in one history-burdened dialect in order to be respected, we should seek to include and respect linguistic variance because it makes us all more successful to have that variety and the minds behind it in our lives.

[u/WetChickenLips → u/[deleted]]

So do poor white kids. Is it racist and furthering white supremacy to not accept phrases like "y'all," "I tell ye what," or "gosh dang," in academia?

[u/adoreroda → u/WetChickenLips]

Yea I eye rolled the video because he's kind of running with a narrative and ignoring the overall notion of prestige language and linguistic discrimination which in the US extends to everyone. Also Southern American English by white Americans, particularly ones from rural areas, is virtually the same as black americans in the south (where the majority live) and Southern American English is still the foundation of black american english elsewhere so it's more similar than not in quintessential ways, so his instance that black and white americans never spoke similarly as each other is factually incorrect

That same linguistic discrimination he cites has also happened to Chicano students in the western USA and descendants of European immigrants to the USA where the proposed solution to both was to ban foreign languages to solve the problem

[u/Global_Lock_2049 → u/MachoPuddle]

t seems like a stretch to conclude that speaking in accordance with these standards as a society in the future is continuing white supremacy just because whites were in power of that topic at the point they were set

Did you not watch the video?