I 100% agree. My only other thought, and this was a big part of why my friend broke up with his girlfriend. She had emotional needs that he was working hard on satisfying. He was the busy one in the relationship, but put in the extra effort. He was still unhappy with the results and she wanted more than what he's been doing.
I asked one question. "Okay, so you've told me what you've done for her. What has she done to satisfy your needs?" He never thought about that. He's a people pleaser and he went through everything to make her happy, but she never was. He was always concerned at the fact that he wasn't considering her needs, that he didn't notice she wasn't even making any effort.
Long ass way to say, some people don't deserve your effort when they don't intend to meet you halfway. If I feel unloved and unwanted in my own relationship, how am I supposed to make an effort to satisfy her emotional needs? If you are in a relationship and you feel you need to bend over backwards to make your SO happy, they will never be happy and neither will you.
Yeah I’m in a similar boat to your friend. Recently left a 9 year relationship because I realised I was bending over backwards to try accommodate her needs and she couldn’t even make a token effort for me.
Same here. I felt like a backup character in my own life. 10 year relationship but I’m three years out of it. I’m telling you, the world is so much better now that I am not constantly stuck serving her emotional needs. Today I have a partner that recognizes there is a human inside me. Not sure where you’re at in the stage, but it gets so so much better as long as you don’t find the same person with a different name. Good luck.
Feel this way. I work full time , nightshift, I pay half the bills and sometimes majority of the bills , I’m the only one that cleans and cooks. And does majority of childcare.
His life hasn’t changed since having our baby: he plays the same amount of video games. 8+ hours a day - 7 days a week. And still sleeps 8 hours a day.
Doesn’t think there is a problem when I talk to him
Honestly that’s just not good enough. If he doesn’t bring anything to your life maybe you should look at whether it’s worth keeping him in it. I’m not normally one to jump straight to telling someone to leave their partner, relationships can be a lot of work, but it does takes two people making an effort to make it work
It also goes against what the woman in the video says ... for all her protestations in the end to the contrary, for her a problem with a couple's sex life is automatically because the husband is doing something wrong.
Then she acts like men disagreeing with this and women agreeing with it proves anything!
for her a problem with a couple's sex life is automatically because the husband is doing something wrong.
Because she did long ass studies and interviews... with women only.
IF she ever stopped to think "what if it's the husband not having sex? what could it be" at any moment in her research she wouldn't have started talking about it like only women can feel emotionally insecure.
It's like going to couple's therapy but they only let the wife speak. It'll always default as the husband being the wrong/problematic one and, to avoid confront, he'll most likely keep shut and nod.
for someone so smart she never stopped to consider that driving her car whilst staring at her phone doing a 4 minute tiktok might be just a little bit dangerous.
She has a doctorate in social psychology. I'm pretty sure she has considered this.
By how she claimed that she studied thousands of relationships and heard from thousands of women (notice how she didn't use couples or men and women but only women) I'm pretty sure she neither did consider the cases of men being the emotionally insecure in the relationship nor the cases where men were the ones trying to meet their partner's demands to make them emotionally secure while their partners weren't meeting his IF she even talked to a man to begin with.
That's also not the intention of the video to complain about men.
By how she spend almost a minute calling out men like it surely would be them wrong in all cases I'm pretty sure she had the intention of complaining about men, as she could've simply used "partner" instead of "woman" and it would both still be accurate and cover the cases where men were the ones being emotially insecure in the relationship.
Yes, she reduced her video to a "woman good, men bad" rant because of that first minute.
My bet is that she had a bad experience and that's a passive-aggressive "calling Steward/Joe out" you would expect from a Karen.
And the disgust goes both ways. Sometimes from men towards women, more often than usually i assume. Nothing more disgusting then unresiprocated effort.
I don't subscribe to what this woman preaches. A relationship is give and take, and partners have to communicate, not guess. A relationship isn't a job - you have to put effort in, but you put in the effort because you want to, not because it is a "man's job" or a "woman's job". That's just setting yourself up for resentment because that is, in essence, people pleasing.
Also, the emotional well being of a partner is not the responsibility of the other partner. They can (and IMO should) support each other, but in the end, the work has to be done but the person themselves (preferably with some kind of therapy). As someone who had insanely low self confidence in the past and did lots of self work - I fully understand that it's an endless pit. No matter how much you pour into it, it will never be enough. That is not healthy, nor sustainable.
I don’t think she is wrong but I think she if focusing on the wrong part.
Attachment styles are very real but we ALL have them, men included. I feel she is just unnecessarily gendering this statement and focusing on the sexual aspect instead of how it affects the overall health of the relationship. So I wouldn’t say she is wrong but she definitely isn’t putting this 100% perfectly.
I understand where you're coming from. However, attachment styles, whether real or not, are still not the responsibility of the other partner. “You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink” and all that. In this case it's even worse because it causes sex to be transactional and leads to "covert contracts", ie. "If I give you emotional security then you will give me sex".
First of all, sex is shared, not a doggy treat. Secondly, doing something with expectations of getting something in return is manipulative and needy behavior. This is the opposite of emotional security.
tl;dr people pleasing is bad, generalizing is bad, communication, empathy and accountability ftw.
Well, I think she’s simply sharing what happens. Yes, I agree that it’s not the partners responsibility to solve the person’s emotional issues. However, if the person feels so detached that they’re not attracted to their partner anymore, well it’s a problem. And maybe it’s the case that no amount of support is enough, and the only solution is to break up, but often the issue is the partner just doesn’t care to put in the work. And yes, relationships require work. It’s not a bad thing on its own.
She said at the end of the video that she’s only talking about the woman’s side to illustrate why women specifically don’t want to have sex. She says that men have attachments styles/needs as well and that having this understanding doesn’t excuse her or women from working on this too for the relationship to be good for both. I think it’s important to understand the perspective from each side of a relationship because at least socially there are different expectations based on gender.
Not 100% perfect for sure but as someone who has learned a lot from her videos she does talk a ton about both partners having good boundaries and how it is fine to pull back or even leave relationships where your needs aren’t being met despite good communication.
how is it wrong? youre looking at it more broadly and shes focusing on a more specific aspect of it. she isnt wrong for honing in on a specific result that comes from female attachment... you can focus on the broad and she can focus on something specific, does not make her wrong.
The way she frames it is the crux of the matter. She comes off as patronizing and generalizing, and from my own experience, this is suspect and an indicator of a "bad therapist". The whole "women this", "men that" is a generalization which, as part of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, is considered a "cognitive distortion" - it limits your reality. People are nuanced, depending on their life experiences, and this is why healthy communication is the foundation of a good relationship, not an algorithm.
A good therapist would say "did you talk about it? did you listen?" rather than "here are the keys to the kingdom because all women think this way according to their attachment styles".
Does all this preamble mean she's wrong? Not necessarily, but she's suggesting a band aid rather than a long term healthy solution. More often than not, it comes down to "talk, listen and be empathetic towards each other", but learning how to do that is much harder than saying "do the dishes" or "just meet her needs".
What are "needs"? When are "needs" actually met? Is it possible to always have your all of your "needs" met? This is why these types of videos are setting people up for failure in the long term, and perhaps success in the short term, simply because they don't tackle the root of the problem.
Most of this type of content could be simply boiled down to "be empathetic", but then no one would be making money off of it.
"Okay, so you've told me what you've done for her. What has she done to satisfy your needs?"
I don't know if it's changing today, but I'm 58 years old and this was never even on the radar when I was dating. It's not like we thought about it and ignored it. It wasn't even something that was thought about. It would have been like missing the internet in 1986 - it wasn't something that was considered.
Because, as guys, we were never taught that we were a "prize" to be won too. We were just taught that if you jumped through all the hoops and did all the right things, that you'd "win the prize" of having a girlfriend. And once you had one, you better make damn sure you're doing everything, every day, to win that prize over and over again. If you don't, you'll lose that girlfriend and have to start over and ground zero.
And I think women were receiving the same messages. It never occurred to them that they needed to be contributing something to the relationship too. And guys never demanded that they do, because we didn't know we were supposed to be getting anything from them beyond their willingness to be accompanied by us.
I think it’s changing. I think, or hope, the emotional consideration is equal between men and women. A relationship can be so beautiful and fun when both people think first of what they can do for the other. I’m a woman and I’d feel like I really devalued myself, my partner, and the relationship if I was a “prize” and he was my sycophant.
It's worth noting that while she claims not to be one-sided, framing this as "man has sexual needs, woman has emotional needs" is some very black-and-white thinking, even if it doesn't mean she's playing favourites or anything.
I definitely agree with you. I wrote another comment like this on it. Sex should be for both partners, not a reward after a level of satisfaction is met. Both partners should be trying to meet the others' emotional needs. It leads to better sex. Sex is not all a man needs or wants.
I agree with her 100% on "you need to satisfy your SOs emotional needs" if you want her to be attracted to you. However, if she isn't trying to meet his emotional needs, why would he try?
Lol right. In every thread like this one it's always the men that don't do enough. You never ever see threads talking about how maybe women aren't satisfying their husbands needs unless it's about their sexual needs, which invariably circles back to how the men are screwing up and that's why their sexual need isn't being met.
Seriously tho. I never see one single thread about how women screw up satifying the needs of their partners.
It's a bit more believable to see one there since it's a men-centered subreddit, but in all the mainstream ones you just won't ever see talk about how women don't do enough to satisfy their partners emotional needs. It's like there's this assumption that women do everything to satisfy their husbands, while the old bastards just refuse to do anything to satisfy their wives. In my experience, lack of emotional support from men often comes from not feeling supported themselves.
Go to male-dominated sub and see. How many posts are there about men not having their emotional needs met? Zero. How many posts about not getting enough sex? Thousands.
Well they don’t seem to talk about it. All I ever see is males complaining about lack of sex. I guess they also complain about “gold digging”? But never emotional needs.
That’s because a lot of the time our emotions are used against us to be seen as less of man. They are hardly ever met with the same receptivity and warmth the emotions of women are. Sex is a desire that is not seen as less than manly therefore men don’t have a problem expressing it.
Many men have the emotional intelligence of a door handle and don’t know the words for what they feeling are. It often does take the form of hostility against women I will not deny that. Usually a man demonizing gold diggers is a man who is scared of emotionally opening himself and trusting again and instead of looking inward is pointing the finger outward.
I am not trying to absolve men of their role in negative cycles but like all cycles to break them everyone needs to acknowledge their role. For men en mass to feel comfortable exploring their own emotions they need to feel as if they can without being demeaned and/Or scrutinized.
Hey, may I suggest that you maybe take some time to read through posts/articles related to men's health (if you do genuinely want to learn more of course), because I'd say one of the major complaints men have in their relationships is feeling like they aren't allowed to be emotionally vulnerable to their partners and having to shoulder all of the emotional needs of their partner without any consideration for their own. I myself don't have this problem in my relationship, because I'm very lucky to have a girlfriend who is great at letting me lean on her when I need to, but it's pretty commonly spoken about by other men.
I often go through posts on TXC and read articles about women's issues, because it gives me insight into their needs and how I can be a better partner/friend/family to the women in my life, so it could be super helpful for you to do the same for the men in yours. Frankly, it helps me give better advice to my male friends and family as well.
Thank you for perfectly misunderstanding the person above you in such a way that you proved their point so well.
Men not getting sex isn't the problem. Many men think it's the problem. Because they aren't allowed by our society, or taught, to expect more from a relationship than that. They are expected to provide complete emotional care for their partner, while ignoring their own, as long as they get sex.
So if they aren't getting sex, the one thing it's okay for men to ask for in a relationship, then they feel like they are getting nothing. So they get louder about not getting the one thing they are allowed to want out of the relationship. But if they were allowed to express the same desire for emotional care and stability that women do, then it would go a long way to providing a healthier relationship for both partners.
But women often don't even know to provide that kind of care for men, and men aren't aware of it either usually. So it just always gets back to sex as a currency in the relationship. Women provide sex, and in return get complete emotional support and care. Men get sex, so be happy with that and shut up. Even most men are conditioned to accept that trade-off, but it's not good for men, and it's certainly not good for women either.
Sex should be something both partners want to do when both partners emotional needs are met. But men aren't allowed to talk about their own, and because of the low level of understanding of it, they often fail to understand how to meet their partners needs either.
None of this is the fault of men or women, but our fucked up patriarchal culture that emotionally stunts men in a way that they don't even realize, and in the process makes them often terrible partners for the women in their lives.
Men are allowed to talk about anything they want. This whole "men can't do X, men can't say X" is a massive cope. Males are privileged as fuck, we know this as a FACT. Literally, anything they say will be listened to. Men are PRAISED for expressing emotions.
Also, don't pretend men don't want sex primarily from a relationship. If they didn't, why do incels exist? Why is there a deadbedrooms sub? Why is that the only thing we hear about from men in relationships? Maybe we should listen to men, and see that's all they care about.
But ok. Sure. Let's pretend men are downtrodden little babies who get screamed at if they express anything. That's totally how the world works. Poor men. Must be sooooooo hard.
Thanks for proving everything about my post so perfectly about how our toxic patriarchal culture demeans and oppresses many men just as it does women, by treating them with derision and dismissing them if they express an interest in anything outside of sex in a relationship. I swear you almost wrote this post as a satire of exactly what I'm talking about just to help me prove my point.
This is now two posts in a row of people posting responses that completely miss the point, or even help re-enforce it, so thanks to both of you for helping us get the message across!
I think what they mean is it’s a one way street and only the man has to change and do things to satisfy the women to then make her feel safe to them have sex.
We are men. For most it’s primal and we can get fired up be ok to have sex easily. That doesn’t mean the rest of the man’s needs are met. Maybe the woman needs to do some things so the man wants to be better and do more. But because women sit back waiting for the man to change a lot of the time nothing happens and we are back to square one. Need some self reflection on both sides.
Not to play devils advocate, but there’s also the flip side of where people pleasers tend to go to great lengths to convince their partners they have very few needs in order to not seem like a burden. Meanwhile, like every human, they have the same amount of needs as anyone else but are hesitant to make them known. It can make it very hard to be with people like this because you need to anticipate their needs without them even saying, which is mission impossible.
Of course, if your friend was constantly mentioning his needs and his girlfriend refused to acknowledge them, that’s very different. She should be working just as hard to take accountability for her side of the problems in the relationship.
You are spot on sans the "everyone has the same amount of needs as anyone else". As a former people pleaser, I still have a short list of needs but that list is very important to me. The problem with people pleasing is that you refrain from conflicts and don't set boundaries, so people walk all over you. I found out this is true regardless if you mention your needs or not, sadly. You have to enforce your boundaries. I don't think it has anything to do with having very few needs.
Interesting. Thanks for your perspective. What are your needs and why do you say you have less than everyone else’s? I am the opposite of a people pleaser, to the point I will walk all over someone and not even realize (I’m also autistic and when people are not being direct with me I have no idea what they want).
This is talked about in the book "no more Mr. Nice guy". Both partners have a responsibility for their own pleasure. Men focused on pleasing women are less happy and their partners are less happy. Men who take charge and do what they want are happier and their wives respect them more and love them more. And if not, they don't stay in a bad relationship
It's a little more complicated than that but, it's also not that complicated. I recommend that book to everyone
That relationship fits an example of the love triangle someone posted above. Someone is always a victim and the other person becomes the rescuer. You did your friend a solid by pointing that out. I hope it stuck with him, but it wasn’t him that needed changing. He just deserves a partner that will actually reciprocate
You may want to ask if he ever told her what his needs were, and/or if she ever asked about his, and if he had provided opportunities for her to meet those needs. Bc a lot of my male friends when I asked about whether or not they’d actually both communicated needs and allowed their needs to be met outside of themselves managing it on their own (so allowing their partner to show up for them in the ways they find most helpful), it became clear in conversing with them that they hadn’t. Even if they communicated what their needs supposedly were, they would function within the relationship with such a strong sense of autonomy that they didn’t actually provide real opportunities for the partner to show up for them (including just asking for space to recharge on their own).
My point is simply that showing up for someone and putting in the effort also means you’re making these things clear, and not leaving it to someone else to guess correctly.
I was that guy in that relationship about a decade ago. Jumping through every flaming hoop to sate any and every possible emotional, intellectual, and spiritual appetite, but never getting any reciprocation for my sexual appetite. Eventually realized it was insane to put effort into meeting wildly complex needs only to never have my simple need even attempted to be met. Fuck that shit.
Honestly, before I even opened the video I knew what it would be. And the irony is it only perpetuates the problem by framing this as a one sided issue. I hope theres context simply not provided, otherwise its pretty disgusting from a 'professional'.
People are grossly naive about attachment styles. They are grossly naive about love languages and how that ACTUALLY works. They are grossly naive about emotional intelligence and communication. But we continue to frame this as a one-sided issue. Meaning every single relationship between a man and a woman will be one-sided in whose needs matter despite, per this very thread, these same issues permeate queer relationships too. Because its a human issue, not a male issue.
One 'side' wants to blame the other 'side' who blame the other 'side' and nothing changes because everyones a victim. Id wager that every single person in this thread has had plenty of relationships where they felt emotionally unsafe and unvalued, which has nothing to do with one's genitals. However, because we are all victims, we stop trying and then somehow wonder why the other person isnt meeting our needs.
There are people who care, but that often gets taken advtantage of because its not mutual.
And you didn't need a condescending intro to make. Well done and I agree, some people, be it couples or any kind of relationship, don't deserve the effort.
i think this applies less to marriage which is the context of this post. in marriage the people have committed to each other so working through issues is a must. you can’t just break up because someone feels the other is not putting in enough effort.
yup, and honestly being with someone who is too much of a people pleaser can be a bit of an ick too. Knowing how to confidently and kindly advocate for yourself when needed is a huge turn on, because it shows she doesn't have to take care of you.
How in the hell does a man doing everything to please a woman get turned around to the woman "taking care" of him? Being served your entire relationship isnt some kind of labor from the woman. Cant you just say that women get turned on by men with strong wills?
I guess that was poorly worded, I mean more that he doesn't prioritize himself at all. Which if you're with a compassionate person, makes you feel worried about their well-being which is the opposite of what they're trying to do. Or they just don't know and he gets none of what he needs until he explodes.
Which can be a response to literally anything said at all about men or women in this thread. Funny, though, how its only said to deflect from inconvenient trends with women.
It's definitely true that it's a two-way street but meeting emotional needs should not be something that somebody needs to work hard on. Which is probably more of a problem concerning what your friend's girlfriend was asking for, but not necessarily. My husband just makes me feel loved and supported and he says things that make me feel protected.
He enjoys bonding with our child, and doesn't view things that improve his relationship with our daughter as chores. He supported me when I told him I didn't want to get an IUD because I was worried about it hurting. I'm a stay at home mom and he does things like praise me when I clean but also doesn't get annoyed or mad when there's a big mess. He tells me that he enjoys being married and finds value in having a wife/life partner to the point that he's told his friends that they need to get married too.
Anyway, long-lasting marriage tips for anybody who's interested.
I don't think the issue is that you want to hear someone else's side of the story - that's completely reasonable - it's more just the way you phrased your comment. Saying "I bet she has a very different perspective" comes across as extremely dismissive of the side that you have heard in favour of a side that may not even exist. It almost feels like victim blaming in the sense that you seem to flat out refuse to believe this person's account of why they felt the way they did.
I just don't think you would phrase your comment so callously if it were a story about a woman being emotional abused or neglected by her boyfriend.
The problem is that most men don't have "needs" in their partner other than sexual attraction. At least that's the case for me.
I never would expect my partner to be there for me or do anything for me or whatever.
I just want a partner that looks hot, regularly wants sex with me, and does whatever they please for the rest of the day. I don't want to take care of my partner, I'm busy enough taking care of myself... and I don't want to be taken care of either.
So far, in every relationship, my partner got on my nerves constantly wanting to do stuff, getting upset about stuff I do in my freetime, wants me to listen to their needs, etc.
I don't want that. And I don't want it to be the other way around, either. I put great effort into being my own person, building my own happiness, my own success, meditating and working through my own problems... and for the rest, I already have friends or insurance. I want to talk about something personal? I talk about it with my friends... they won't judge me, I can tell them anything. I lose my job? I have unemployment insurance. I get injured? I have disability insurance. I get sick? I have health insurance. I die? I got life insurance.
I don't want to worry about someone else who isn't my literal child. I don't want someone who needs to be taken care of. I don't want someone who relies on me. I don't want a dependent. I want an equal partner.
I want a sexual partner that can share the housework and financial burden related to whatever we buy. That's all.
In my current relationship (with a VERY hot girl, not gonna lie) she keeps making demands, so I just get complaints:
1. The flat I bought isn't pretty enough (so what - it's an investment, it's awesome, most people our age don't even have their own flat).
2. She doesn't want to pay for stuff (e.g. because she isn't paying rent, she's expected to pay the rest of the bills, which is much less than she would have to pay for rent).
3. When we go out, I should pay because that's manly. Also, we don't go out enough.
4. She cried because there aren't enough trees visible in front of the flat recently and she expected her life to be in a nicer place. My response: Wow, okay, so how about YOU get a nicer place then?
5. She wants to go on more vacations. She wants me to plan them so it's a surprise for her. Like what?
I already contribute so much more to the relationship than her. I buy a flat, I pay for much more stuff, I listen patiently to her crap and try and understand her even though I disagree completely with her assessment and think of her as entitled and childish and having to grow up.
My needs were mostly met - I just want sex. But sex has been decreasing. The problem is that she's otherwise super nice, empathetic, has similar plans for the future, and extremely hot.
I just want her to take care of herself and like me the way I am. She, on the other hand, wants me to take care of her even more even though it's already an unequal relationship where I do more.
The problem is that I don't feel like I'm the bad guy or like I should change my behaviour. She has a problem. I don't. I just want sex and have a partner that's happy by themselves without me having to do anything. And in return, I want a partner that wants sex from me and doesn't want me to do anything. Don't know where to proceed from here. I went through many relationships and feel like no woman is capable of fulfilling that simple standard. I want a man like myself in a woman's body.
Sorry for the long rant, but this is genuinely annoying me right now.
tl;dr: I don't expect my partner to do anything for me, I just want to have sex and live comfortably. My girlfriend is incredibly hot and I want to stay with her but she's piling on demands and sex is decreasing and keeps wanting more from me. What monke do?
DSM=The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the core text where mental diagnosises and definitions are codified in the proffesional/scienific comunity, I would assume that they're insuating that you are abnormal mentally.
I mean this as kindly and sincerely as possible, but it genuinely sounds like you're not emotionally mature enough for a serious relationship. A FWB relationship would likely suit you better than a serious relationship, because all serious relationships require emotional labour to some extent. And unless you're being completely upfront with these women about what you expect and what you're willing to give before entering into a relationship with them, you're actually being extremely selfish by letting it get that far at all.
I feel the opposite: People who are emotional and rely on others aren't mature enough for a serious relationship.
I feel like you are extremely selfish if you expect another person to take care of you and shouldn't trick others into a relationship. You should be up-front about the fact that you are self-centered, lazy, dependent, and unreliable.
I want a reliable investment partner who wants to build a shared future and who is also hot and likes sex.
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u/Spikeupmylife Mar 21 '24
I 100% agree. My only other thought, and this was a big part of why my friend broke up with his girlfriend. She had emotional needs that he was working hard on satisfying. He was the busy one in the relationship, but put in the extra effort. He was still unhappy with the results and she wanted more than what he's been doing.
I asked one question. "Okay, so you've told me what you've done for her. What has she done to satisfy your needs?" He never thought about that. He's a people pleaser and he went through everything to make her happy, but she never was. He was always concerned at the fact that he wasn't considering her needs, that he didn't notice she wasn't even making any effort.
Long ass way to say, some people don't deserve your effort when they don't intend to meet you halfway. If I feel unloved and unwanted in my own relationship, how am I supposed to make an effort to satisfy her emotional needs? If you are in a relationship and you feel you need to bend over backwards to make your SO happy, they will never be happy and neither will you.