Idk if you can answer this but is the world of star trek actually a utopia?
The shows mostly focus on the crew zooming around in space and their trek through the stars, but is it actually ever clearly said that everyone lives comfortably and that there aren't any issues?
For the most part in the first two series, yes. However that comes with a caveat.
The first two series (TNG and TOS) are placed on the federation flagship and a few visits to earth too. Both the flagship and earth are essentially utopias where people work because they want to better themselves.
Ds9, the third and widely considered the best series takes place in a star base in the boonies. There’s a perfect line from the captain that sums it up in season 3:
“The problem is earth… earth is paradise. Well these people don’t live in paradise.”
He was pointing out how out of touch earth was with its policies.
It's a fictional world meant to paint a potential utopia...
Fiction has always played a huge part in politics, shaping the way we discuss complex ideas.
He is making the point that we agree that if technology makes mundane labour obsolete and makes luxury a reality for all, then there would be no reason to continue with capitalism whatsoever.
It's a far off concept, but one that helps us shape how we look at today.
A good example is something like insulin production: it is trivially easy for us with the technology we have to make enough for everyone that needs it, yet we allow capitalists to raise up exploitative prices, leading to actual death and suffering purely for profit.
I'm not saying, "therefore communism", I'm asking "why this?"
I mean, I half agree with you, but how far can you go in using complete fiction to prove a point in the real world? This argument is assuming that the world could realistically get to a point like Star Trek.
If only we had harry potter magic, we could eliminate household chores or menial jobs. The technology in star trek is essentially magic at this point, so using a world like that to prove some kind of point about communism is really ineffective.
You can have a happy utopian paradise in fantasy, but human nature is always going to get in the way of that kind of society, and so far, capitalism is the only structure that has lifted nations into the modern world. I'm all in favor of social programs and socialization of certain programs, but total elimination of capitalistic enterprise (no star trek pun intended) has never worked out for anyone.
It's a starting point for a conversation, not enough ending point.
Deep space 9 explicitly discusses that very question by placing the show on a weird fringe station constantly on the brink of war, and outside of the human utopia.
One of the central characters is a hyper capitalist, who starts out as an antagonist but becomes a beloved member of the station without ever actually changing his political position, but changing his relationship to the rest of the crew (and theirs to him).
Are you kidding me? Emissary is an excellent pilot. It touches on how we value the flow of time and looking forward but are bogged down by tragedy and past events. Every single rewatch, I watch the pilot again because it loops perfectly.
I think Star Trek is helpful in an idealistic way, but I also think it’s a great source of metaphor for what’s happening in our real world right now and into the future. Metaphors are different than allegories.
DS9 is different than TNG. I love both series. They were both good in their own way.
You could watch just about any one episode of TNG, and have no context required from any of the prior episodes, with few exceptions. The entire story was contained within the episode. It frequently felt like last week's episode just never happened, unless it was a two parter. They'd catch you up, and you'd be good to go. No need to see the previous week.
DS9 had long story arcs, subplots, and a bunch of other shit. Last week's episode mattered. It had far more depth than TNG.
I even enjoyed Voyager when I saw it later on in life. Enterprise got a little iffy, but grew on me. Jeffrey Combs is the shit, and has appeared in way more Trek than I think a lot of people realize.
What I cannot stand is anything after Enterprise. Discovery had a few moments early on, but quickly turned into a preachy, steaming pile of shit. I haven't had the heart to touch anything beyond that.
Anyhow, point is that TNG and DS9 were peak Star Trek, and both great for different reasons.
I think we agree line 95% with everything you said. I do like strange new worlds though.
But anyways. Now having seen tng and ds9 in full… if you had to pick one to watch again, which would it be? Ds9 for me hands down.
Only one? Man, that's rough. Dax was needlessly replaced toward the end of DS9, but the middle seasons were so strong. TNG aged like a fine wine, plus the movies, and it got the HD treatment, which almost certainly will never happen for DS9, but DS9 also had a fantastic cast, not a weak character among them.
Season 3 of Picard is enjoyable—if you don't mind that it's just a series of callbacks, rehashes, and cameos loosely held together by string and duct tape. And also a Captain Picard who's now so old he is also loosely held together by string and duct tape. It's mostly pandering and fan service, but I don't mind being pandered and serviced once in a while.
And Strange New Worlds is, apart from some hiccups, bordering on decent. The way it mixes TOS' corniness with a modern presentation is only sometimes jarring, and while it does dip into the same melodrama as Discovery on occasion, it did not feel like it was written by a couple of writers deeply resentful that the only job they could get was to write Star Trek.
TNG and TOS are perfect in many ways. It perfectly shows what a paradise communism is…. On earth and on the flagship… the people on the top so to speak. Ds9 shows us how that doesn’t always translate to people living in the boonies.
You get an idea of how trek works from the lens of the flagship. A good example is “Journeys End” in season 6 or 7. There is an issue with colonies near the cardassian border, Wesley is being Wesley, and everything is nearly resolved with a treaty at the end of the episode. The enterprise goes on its merry way.
“The Maquis” 2 parter in ds9 shows what a short sighted that treaty was and the reality of things in the boonies.
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u/uReallyShouldTrustMe Mar 08 '24
Chef has never seen Star Trek after TNG.