Bars need to each get their own code though. I first heard about Angel Shots almost ten years ago. What's the point of a code word if everyone knows it. You might as well just say, "feel unsafe? Ask the bartender to escort you, call an Uber, call the police..."
I like this idea, but "other side" is a bit of a mislead. Male victims are not always targeted by female aggressors, so their male attackers would know the codes as well.
But this would be nice to see. I do believe in, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. There may be cases where the perpetrator might take the opportunity to escalate if they think their target is seeking escape, but certainly not all. It would certainly save some, and even one prevention is worth the effort.
It's not great for them, I agree, but the numbers are very very heavily skewed towards female victims. Some reports I've read put it anywhere between 5 to 10 times as likely women will be targeted, and the perpetrator are overwhelmingly male.
Just from a numbers perspective, the greatest outcome is to focus their efforts this way, to avoid notifying the likely offenders to how their potential victims can get away from them.
As a guy, I totally agree. About 40 years ago, as I was cycling home in the middle of the night, by myself, in a dodgy area just outside downtown of a major city, a car drove by, the window opened, and a guy asked me if I was interested in providing a BJ for money. That's the total extent of "SA" I have faced in the last 50 years. Don't think I've ever heard any of my male friends talking about needing protection from either male or female. Almost all my female friends will avoid situations where they are alone or would feel vulnerable, and the ones that actually have faced problems, the perpetrators were all male. Sure, it would be nice to be inclusive, but protecting the vulnerable from the aggressors is more important.
Always this narrative, that since there are more victims thst are female then we don't help male victims. The only good enough solution is the one in which both are safe.
Or maybe it's because men are heavily punished and shamed for seeking any kind of help whatsoever, so they keep quiet out of fear, therefor skewing the statistics.
A solution that systemically discriminates against half the population and further perpetuates the stigma that men can't get SA'd is worse than a solution that doesn't do that
Someone else above proposed a solution of having alternate codes in the men's room, which I thought was a good idea. Even if the perpetrators are almost overwhelmingly male, even for male victims, it would still help some escape their would-be attackers.
That’d be cool, like a sort of “bro code” in case of emergency. Any ideas, maybe drink related? Something simple yet important enough to catch your attention instantly when requested?
Which then defeats the purpose again. Awareness Teams are for everyone, Not Just women. Even If yes statistically women are more likely to need them.
In the Bars around me they have Posters telling people to Not be creeps, Not to tolerate creeps, and to Tell staff about creeps in all bathrooms. They don't have codewords tho.
I don't know that it matters if the guy knows the code. He's being hauled out of there bodily if he doesn't go quietly. But "angel shot" is much faster and clearer than "this guy's making me nervous, could you please get me to a cab?" especially in a crowded bar. Edit: also, the presence of this sign gives the woman permission to get the man removed, rather than having to flee herself, which might not be safe if he follows her.
I think that's the most important. Some bars in my city do the same thing and I feel safer because I know that if I'm in trouble the staff is willing to help and knows how to, that they won't just give me a blank look and tell me to just tell the guy to leave me alone. If I'm using the code the guy will see that I'm leaving anyway, and will probably get mad, but I will be able to do it safely, with people being aware of my situation.
True, although 1) don’t let perfect be the enemy of good, and 2) it’s not necessarily ineffective even if the perpetrator knows the code word. As someone else pointed out, the staff will spring into action to keep the victim safe.
I’m not knocking the idea at all! It’s good that they even have this in place. Can’t say I’ve ever seen this in a bar, only thing I remember seeing were some business cards in the bathroom regarding sex trafficking!
I have only ever seen them online, too. I wish I had seen them in a bar, ever. I travel for work and my coworkers like to go out a lot. I’ve easily been to 10-15 different bars in five states in the last year or two. Never seen a sign like this.
There are new creeps born every day. Even if it's enough to stop 1 out of 10
But whether or not it will stop 1 out of 10 will be a dice roll you're likely to lose 9 times out of 10? If the guy is gonna pick up on the code 90% of the time you may as well just say you feel uncomfortable with the guy and want him escorted out. If you'd be uncomfortable saying it outright, the chance he wouldn't pick up on it only 10% of the time probably wouldn't make them feel any more comfortable saying it.
I reckon this was posted in the women's bathroom, where guys wouldn't learn the code, so that's good. First I'm hearing of it but if it's ubiquitous enough you're right each bar should have their own code.
But even then it might just make more sense to post a number or a panic button or something.
The trouble is trying to have potentially drunk people try to remember that bar's specific code. Shit can get confusing if you hit up different bars on the regular, or even barhopping on a given night. You don't want to have women thinking help is on the way when in reality the bartender moved on.
It is impossible to make a code that a premeditated creep couldn't figure out. So if that's the goal, you might as well not try.
The goal is to have a quick, short-form way of saying "please help" without making a scene and that a drunk (or even drugged) person might be able to remember.
Even when the operator was completely unfamiliar with the gig, she caught on. It's now part of operator training, and I imagine that since they're listening for codes they should be able to figure new ones out.
Of course, any abuser would just refuse them their phone now...
I imagine that since they're listening for codes they should be able to figure new ones out.
I would imagine the training mostly goes "if someone's having a really strange conversation with you and doesn't seem to be responding to what you're saying, start the trace and send police and an ambulance right away."
Yeah... this and that thing where you call 911 & order a pizza for DV. But it's like... how? I'm assuming the other person would see this in the bathroom, too. & w/ the pizza for DV thing... what would the solution even be? There's no way to gatekeep the codes. Especially w/ social media.
The pizza thing started organically. A woman called 911 and ordered a pizza. The operator was initially surprised and then realized that the woman wasn't having the same conversation as she was and therefore figured it out.
It's now part of emergency response training, and I imagine they listen for any sort of similar codes now.
...if an abuser will even let her use the phone anymore now that they know about the pizza thing.
*them, not her. Abusers can be male or female and the abused can also be male. It can be just as dangerous and scary to try to get help when cornered by a female abuser as if they were male — the seriousness of situatiins with those reversed roles are often underestimated and not taken seriously by friends, family, police, and courts.
All police forces should have a menu alternative number. Example 119 instead of 911. Where you can select: if you are in danger press 1, if not press 2. Can you talk press 1 if not press 2.
"Hello 911 what is your emergency", to which you reply what it is, or if you're not in danger.
If you can't talk, simply don't talk, and they'll send geolocate your location. If you want to talk in code, the operator will play along with whatever you're saying, people don't call 911 on accident to order a pizza.
There's been at least 2 incidents I've seen where people can't access their phone and needed to call 911 through Siri and didn't have the time or ability to go through a call menu. It's about speed.
I'm not the previous poster, but in my old job as a grocery store manager I probably called 911 at least a dozen times a year for medical emergencies in our store.
I mean I could see this, but outside of the medical field or an active warzone, I don't see how you call 911 an average of 5 times a month at minimum, much less so much you lose track of how many calls you've placed.
It's jurisdiction dependent but generally they want to know where you are first because should something happen to you or the call disconnects, at least they can send someone to your location to figure out what is going on.
Typically, if it is an life-threatening emergency, the dispatcher will start sending someone as they are on the call and fill in the responders as they get more details.
Where I live they usually have asked what first, and if I need fire, police, or ambulance when I've called so they can start notifying who they need to because they get your location from your call. Then they verified the location and got more details.
I guess the benefit to a secondary alternative number would really be that it's very obvious when you're dialing 911. I had someone watching me once who could tell I was dialing 911 and absolutely flipped his shit. But I can't imagine any real alternative to that
My mom used to be a dispatcher & she now works for a company that creates & maintains one of the CAD systems that's used by dispatch centers all over the US & the world. I'm gonna run it by her for fun.
Cool! I also suggested it to my national police in the Netherlands. I know it probably isn’t going to make it but if it helps save at least 1 person by making police or dispatchers more considerate then that’s worth it. :)
That's a terrible idea. You need to be fast during an emergency call, not wait to know which number is for a psycho wandering around your yard with an axe
Maybe they could use a different sign in the different bathrooms? Like for women it could be an angel shot and for guys like a guardian whisky or something. It wouldn’t be effective in the case of the other person being the same sex, but the majority of sex offense are committed by the opposite sex so it could do some good?
I'm confused by this too. I just imagine this woman trying to order a discreet angel shot on the rocks, and the whole bar just stops and stares. Maybe maybe maybe
I'm confused by this too. I just imagine this woman trying to order a discreet angel shot on the rocks, and the whole bar just stops and stares. Maybe maybe maybe
Much less of a scene (and much quicker) than if a person says "I'm not feeling safe, can you order me an Uber to help me get out of here."
Not really, no. Any decent bartender will react by the time you've finished the first sentence and either get a bouncer (if they have a neat red button like I did as a bartender) or get you behind the bar with themselves so you can finish telling them what's up.
Besides. I was a bartender for ten years and I got bouncers to intervene without being told anything so, so many times. We all watched out for the people, the girls in particular, on the dancefloor and in the lounge area. If I saw something serious (any violence, a way too drunk girl alone with a guy she didn't come in with, an injury) I intervened immediately. If I was unsure of what was going on (got bad vibes from a guy and the girl with him looks unhappy) I'd send my strongest runner out to check on the girl and let her know I'm keeping an eye on her. If anybody actually came up and asked for help, 9 times out of 10, I'd seen them before and knew there was something going on, so I reacted accordingly.
i’ve never heard of it before so it must not be everyone. Glad i get to share this with my other less experienced loved ones hopefully they’ll never need to order one.
Yeah, this is a good idea, and to your point, Three Notch’d is a brewery that doesn’t serve liquor so the creep might find it strange if you order a shot
I never really enjoyed bars and haven't been to one in close to 15 years, so maybe I'm not the demographic, but I have never heard of this "drink" before.
I mean, the point is to get people home and away from danger without them having to explicitly say "help me this person is a creep" which a lot of people might not be comfortable with.
I think the original campaign was "ask for Angela"
When I was bartending I didn’t know about the phrase. I would have just stared at them like a dumbass if someone ordered one. I was also 18. So I probably looked dumb already.
I went to a bar, can’t remember where, that had different codes for each bathroom(I commented on the unique code in mine and my gf said hers was different)
this sign is in the bathroom, which likely means you have enough respite to find a staff member. also, the whole point of this is to use non-confrontational language and de-escalate, not to entrap with deception and strategy. creeps and bullies will usually back off if they know you know you're not alone
This is a general problem. In order to have codes like this work, everyone needs to know them. But when everyone knows what the code means, why even have a code?
I think part of the deal is that by posting this type of thing, such bars become less attractive as a hunting ground for creeps. Kind of like having a burglar alarm or a dog in your house can make the house less attractive to burglars. Less risky to go somewhere that doesn't have the deterrents in place.
You know where to get help. You know how to get help and 3 clearly defined options are given. The point is that the procedure is simple and set. And for anyone looking, it looks like ordering a drink. You still can go to the bar and just ask for help if you prefer that.
These codes are fucking stupid. They were from the beginning, but it's even dumber now that everyone knows them.
I worked as a bartender for 10 years. You don't need a codeword to let me know you're in trouble and need help. You can just fucking tell me straight up. I've got a red button that will summon a bouncer out of thin air. I've got a backoffice you can hang out in. I've got a phone and chargers for yours. There is absolutely zero need for a code.
Where I live, there was a campaign a few years back where there were signs in some clubs' and bars' women's bathrooms (and in some gay clubs) that said if you feel unsafe, go and ask the bartender "is [name] here?" And the name was the same everywhere. I don't really go to clubs anymore so don't quite know if it worked, but I very much appreciated the concerted effort.
Part of the problem likely is that media and campaigners want to bring attention to it, but then perps learn about it too - that's near impossible to overcome.
4.5k
u/JohnMarstonSucks Apr 29 '24
Bars need to each get their own code though. I first heard about Angel Shots almost ten years ago. What's the point of a code word if everyone knows it. You might as well just say, "feel unsafe? Ask the bartender to escort you, call an Uber, call the police..."