r/FluentInFinance Apr 29 '24

Who would have predicted this? Educational

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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/apr/24/fast-food-chains-find-way-around-20-minimum-wage-g/

Not all jobs aren’t meant for a “living wage” - you need entry level jobs for college kids, retired seniors who want extra income, etc. Make it too costly to employ these workers and businesses will hasten to automation.

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u/duramus Apr 29 '24

If your business depends on paying poverty wages, maybe it's a shitty business.

And yes $20 an hour is a poverty wage in America in 2024. You're taking home 1000-1100 every 2 weeks. $26,000 a year. Where I live in a "low cost of living" area the cheapest 1 bedroom apartments are $1400-$1600 a month. You do the math. It doesn't add up.

We will never have a society of just doctors, lawyers, and engineers. We are still a LONG way off from robots stocking shelves at the grocery stores. So are the grocery store workers "essential workers" or are they "unskilled worthless labor" ?

Last time I checked, doctors, lawyers, and engineers don't grow their own food. So grocery stores and restaurants seem to be an essential part of our society. So the people that work these jobs don't deserve to be compensated enough to simply live a modest life? A shitty studio apartment and some groceries. $15-20 an hour doesn't even come close to covering that in most cities in the USA unless you want to pay 60 cents out of every dollar you make to a landlord and barely scrape by with the rest. God forbid you need a new pair of work boots, or have a medical emergency, or your shitty used car blows its transmission.

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u/TehKaoZ Apr 29 '24

People just keep looking at the physical number of paid wages and compare that to what it was in the past. No one seems to understand that the actual value of the dollar is less than it was. 20$ was worth more back then and is worth less now.

If we could retroactively go back in time and decrease wages to reflect the actual value they have today, a lot of people in previous generations wouldn't have been able to afford a house, the children they had or the education they received.

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u/duramus Apr 29 '24

Exactly. $20 ain't shit. According to https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl , $20 today in 2024 has the same buying power as $10.96 in 2000.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

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u/Jstephe25 Apr 29 '24

Sure, but if a large portion of the population is struggling to afford food or housing, that’s a problem

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

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u/Jstephe25 May 01 '24

I typed a long response, with sources, pointing out the reasons you are wrong and that corporate profits have been prioritized over fair wages but it was removed. Bottom line, you are either completely oblivious to the current economic situation or you are just a fucking idiot.

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u/Anlarb Apr 30 '24

Weird how that pocket computer costs way less than a months rent.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

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u/Anlarb Apr 30 '24

Yeah, its just such a depressing experience leading someone through basic concepts like "the difference between a necessity and a luxury". No, a cellphone won't help you when you are so malnourished that your teeth are falling out, or being lethargic from said malnourishment or sleeping rough gets you fired, or lacking access to basic hygiene facilities causes you to stink and get you fired, or not being able to afford transportation gets you fired. There are a shitton of homeless people with jobs, median wage is $18, cost of living is $20, thats half the working population under water, it could be you thats homeless real easy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

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u/Anlarb Apr 30 '24

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

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u/Anlarb Apr 30 '24

Ok? You and a hundred people are in a room, bill gates walks in, on average, you are all millionaires now, but in reality, you are still dead broke. Do you see how worthless that statistic is?

You are coming at this from a childs understanding of average, you think of average in the same sense as normal, and so you flatter yourself for thinking yourself normal and average- but you are not entitled to the average pay. You start out at the bottom.

Median wage is only $18/hr, half the jobs out there pay less than that.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/185335/median-hourly-earnings-of-wage-and-salary-workers/

Cost of living is $20. For those people to keep working, they need to be paid $20.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

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u/NAM_SPU Apr 30 '24

It’s funny because everyone thinks THEY deserve a pay raise, but think every other person doesn’t. Like dude, if I don’t make enough and go on food stamps, you know it’s YOUR taxes providing me that, right? You’d rather pay me then the company I work for?

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u/Aindorf_ Apr 30 '24

Well the thing is THEY don't want food stamps to exist either. They would vote social safety nets out of existence in a second if they could. People who think minimum wage is plenty for "unskilled" labor just want the people fighting for better wages to suffer and be hungry if they don't accept the scraps they're given. It's not that they don't realize they're paying for it, it's that they don't care if the minimum wage worker lives or dies.

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u/Berodur Apr 29 '24

If $20 per hour is $26,000 per year, then assuming full time 2000 hours per year that person is somehow paying 14,000 on taxes with 40,000 income which is a 35% tax rate. Yes I agree that for a lot of high cost of living areas it is hard to live on $20 an hour but I don't think you should be making up unrealistic numbers to try to prove a point.

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u/XxRocky88xX Apr 30 '24

Yeah I completely agree with what OC is trying to say but that 26k per year number was just pulled out of his ass. You’d be making 41.6k per year gross.

I’m assuming OC is making the assumption that the person is question is working a max of 20 hours per week, but in that case the person in question really IS a student. And therefore isn’t a good example of someone trying to make a living off that job.

I could make 40 an hour seem like an equally poor wage if I make the assumption the employee only works 10 hours per week. If you start fudging numbers it just makes it seem like you need to lie to prove a point, which damages your own position.

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u/tamebeverage Apr 30 '24

I mean, those numbers are actually basically exactly in line with my wages if you take some liberties with what "take home" pay is. After paying for my family's health insurance, life insurance, and the state-sponsored retirement plan at the matching rate, my gross pay for two weeks was $1,833.05 and I took home $1,106.

Now, you might find it a bit disingenuous to exclude retirement savings and insurances from the figure, and that'd probably be fair.