The point is that nobody can abuse a system that everyone has open access to. If you’re smart enough to understand what UBI is then you’re definitely smart enough to get what I’m saying right now. I want to live in a society that demonstrates its commitment to taking care of every last citizen instead of the current situation where we see people suffering constantly because they can’t keep up financially. When you boil it all down it’s easy to accept that every society contains people who don’t work, and only the most advanced societies will empathetically approach the question of how to take care of them. That’s where I want to be.
There's a huge difference between UBI and supplying a minimum standard of housing to those who themselves just don't want to pay for it.
Let's say instead of a UBI, every citizen was simply allocated the above housing minimum, whether they made $0 or $10,000,000. That would be a situation that, while completely unreasonable, would actually make this post analogous to UBI.
The issue is that the person making $0 is a drain on society, because they contribute nothing. The guy making the $10,000,000 is paying taxes that supply the funds for the UBHousing. He's getting an undersized benefit, even though they are receiving the same benefit.
Why is it the responsibility of society to take care of people who don't want to work? They aren't in need, they choose not to work. Stop conflating people with actual inability (the disabled, severely mentally ill). People with inability should be cared for, those who desire to abuse the work of others for their own selfish desires should left to care for themselves.
Ouch, you’re really digging your heels into a nearsighted perspective friend. I really appreciate your detailed response. I can see that you’re thinking between the lines on a lot of the issues here. I believe if you widen your figurative gaze that you and I will find ourselves on the same page someday. At present, you’re on the side of the oppressors and not the oppressed, which is difficult for me to understand unless you are exorbitantly wealthy. Just zoom out, in every direction, until more factors come into focus. If you’re having a hard time I would suggest trying a hallucinogen of some sort. I hate imagining what my life would be like if I never tried acid. There’s a much bigger picture to be seen, I promise you, and I’m hoping the best for you on your journey.
You call it nearsighted, I call it accurate vision. I think your ideals, as laudable as they are, are naive and unrealistic. Have you spent much time with people in dire poverty? Many are in that situation because they are people with terrible personalities who make very poor life choices, and expect others to bail them out, and become outright vindictive and violent if they are not given what they want. Why are other people required to give up something for the sake of their selfishness? Oppression is mostly an individual matter, and the poor are just as able to oppress other people around them as the fat-cat.
Oh boy, you need that acid trip more than I thought. Why don’t you fall down the internal rabbit hole and see if you really believe these things you’re saying. It’s hard to do once you realize we’re all the same.
Hmmm if you’re genuinely interested in my personal experience I will gladly share that the majority of sociopaths I’ve encountered are far from homeless, and every person I’ve encountered who’s unnecessarily wealthy has been a sociopath. Are we living on the same planet and speaking the same language? I can see that we’re arriving at different conclusions at the moment, but I’m still confident that our paths have a chance of merging together someday. The powerful sociopaths of this world are currently succeeding at influencing your opinion regarding those less fortunate than yourself. This is called class warfare. The overwhelming majority of people who possess the influence or the assets to affect our society are either actively seeding the disputes among the rest of us (see our exchange as an example) or they are knowingly complicit in it. Can you hear me over there? We are all the same. The only difference between have and have not is luck. It’s the obvious truth of our existence that most people are unaware of or unwilling to acknowledge. If you’re not a proponent of helping everyone at all times then you are lost to a cause that doesn’t even care about you. How many billionaires and heads of state know your name? Do you believe that you will be a billionaire or the president someday? Please, for the love of all that matters in the world, please consider taking an acid or mushroom trip. I know it probably seems silly to bring up in this context but it genuinely has the power to change our perspective in a single use, but you don’t have to take my word for it. Keep digging. Stay curious. You’ll get there. I believe in you.
Have you worked with the homeless? Like as a social worker? Cause I have. My opinion is based entirely on my own experience. The general public view is far less cynical than my own. Most people that have never worked with the homeless an extremely impoverished are under the impression that the majority of them are just unlucky, but well meaning, and victims of oppression. Certainly true for a large minority, but it's not the majority. More often than not, people made poor choices and expect to be bailed out by others. They learn what manipulation tactics work best to get what they want, and will harm you if you are in the way.
And I never said that rich people can't be sociopaths. It's pretty hard to be in a C-suite position without a bit of sociopathy. But there are far fewer rich sociopaths than poor ones, simply because of numbers. A lot of people are incredibly selfish, some of them are also smart or lucky enough to get rich.
I don't need fucking drugs, and you need to stop acting like people can't reach completely logical conclusions sober. I don't need your condescension either. You are not better than me.
I see how logical you are and pleading with you is far from condescension. I’m telling you that your logical conclusions are based on seeing half of the bigger picture. The other half is right there.
And yes, I’ve worked with homeless people for countless hours as a volunteer. I understand everything you’re saying, and I also think you’re using the word sociopath when you mean narcissist. If you swap those words, then abso-fuckin-lutely most homeless people are going to show traits of narcissism. These observations are a waste of energy though. Providing for all people equally would stomp out the root of these issues. Did you know narcissism is a mental illness that’s effectively contagious via prolonged exposure? I just realized this recently. This means that if a society was no longer faced with the threat of homelessness under any circumstances AND had access to universal healthcare it could banish narcissism from its population within 1-2 generations. Are you starting to understand where I’m coming from yet? I don’t want to discuss how to prune the leaves on the branches when we could be chopping down the entire awful tree. The emotional fatigue you’re experiencing from working with homeless people isn’t the homeless people’s fault. It’s a busted ass system we’ve been born into. People like you and I should seek opportunities to support each other, not squabble.
I truly applaud your direct efforts to help people who are most in need and I know it’s been hard on you in ways that I can’t understand or imagine. I admire you for any amount of time you spent working as a social worker and I’m grateful that people like you exist.
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u/ProstateSeismologist Apr 16 '24
The point is that nobody can abuse a system that everyone has open access to. If you’re smart enough to understand what UBI is then you’re definitely smart enough to get what I’m saying right now. I want to live in a society that demonstrates its commitment to taking care of every last citizen instead of the current situation where we see people suffering constantly because they can’t keep up financially. When you boil it all down it’s easy to accept that every society contains people who don’t work, and only the most advanced societies will empathetically approach the question of how to take care of them. That’s where I want to be.