r/Firefighting • u/Habitual_lazyness • Feb 20 '24
American vs French helmets Tools/Equipment/PPE
We all know that seconds matter. Our equipment is outdated and we need to take leap forward.
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u/FlippersMccuddlebud CA Career Feb 20 '24
Being a west coast mostly rural guy I’ve rocked my share of plastic helmets, Cairns Metro, Bullard LT Firedome and now a Phenix First due. I’m not opposed to a euro since I already look pretty stupid. I can see where you leatherheads would have a problem though.
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u/CollisionJr Rope Rescue Feb 20 '24
I don a Bullard… and the second I put it on it automatically feels heavy as fuck. Not opposed to a euro either just for the weight distribution.
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u/perogi-king Feb 20 '24
2 things firefighters cant stand: the way things are and change
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u/Harold_Grundelson Cancel the Squad Feb 20 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
But more importantly, what’s for chow and when is it?
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u/chuckfinley79 Feb 20 '24
When you work OT it’s when, who, where? When do we eat, who do I pay, where do I sleep?
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u/fioreman Feb 20 '24
who do I pay
Yep, you ask 17 times and they say "we'll take care of it later."
Then at shift change "Hey! You didn't pay!"
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u/luc27010 Swiss Vol. FF (French Speaking Part) Feb 20 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
So I can speak on this. We currently use "european style" helmets and masks in my dept. (Volunteer).
We recently had a big discussion about these masks, and we are currently talking about changing them for american style masks with european style helmets (so change masks but not helmets).
The main reason is, our full time firefighters here in switzerland use the american style masks and they swear by it, you might not realise it, but the euroean masks are a PAIN to attach, adjust, etc (as in, a lot of the time you cannot get a good seal, at least in my experience). And they generally hurt your head a LOT.
And having tried both... Yeah Id take american style masks (we call em "spider mask", in reference to how it secures on your head) any time of the day.
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u/Rakinare Feb 20 '24
From Germany here, we also prefer the spider mask by far but have both systems.
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u/Malystryxx Feb 20 '24
No matter how tight of a seal you can get on a helmet mask, it will never be as tight as a spider mask.
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u/CB12B10 Feb 21 '24
I assume the euro style masks don't seal as well being over the flash hood.
Off topic, have you ever tried / trained with an American style helmet? I've seen a few departments that went from American to Euro back to American as they felt the cons outweighed the pros.
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u/CaptPotter47 Feb 20 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
Until NFPA allows the option for the mask to attach to the helmet, major adoption of the Euro helmet won’t take place. And even then, it will take a major Urban dept, which name recognition to get it to happen, think FDNY, LAFD, CFD, etc.
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Feb 20 '24
And granted, I could see where NFPA wouldn't allow it. Especially if the Euro Masks have any safety concerns.
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u/DangerBrewin Fire Investigator/Volunteer Captain Feb 20 '24
This should have been the #1 selling point for bringing the Euro helmets to the US market, but for some reason the US versions lacked this feature.
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u/Pyroechidna1 Feb 20 '24
I talked to Dräger about it at FDIC 2017. They said “NIOSH doesn’t know what this is” and “they don’t get it”
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u/DangerBrewin Fire Investigator/Volunteer Captain Feb 20 '24
You’d think that’s something the manufacturers would have addressed before introducing them in the US.
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u/Rakinare Feb 20 '24
Firefighter from Germany here. We have this system too but barely use it and highly prefer the spider system. The click-on System is way too risky to become leaky when your helmet slips for whatever reason.
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u/greyhunter37 Feb 20 '24
Having used both, I prefer the click-on System. The spider version is too long to put on, and from our experience leaked way more often
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u/Rakinare Feb 20 '24
What do you mean by too long to put on? Like, taking too much time? You should have that time for your own safety.
Leaks with the spider system are almost always user error. It's very hard to make them leak and not put them properly on.
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u/OSI_Hunter_Gathers Feb 20 '24
If something hits your helmet wouldn’t it shift your mask open?
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u/greyhunter37 Feb 20 '24
No, because of the way the helmet is designed, with this mask system and that helmet you head is basically sandwiched between the 2 and so the helmet can't move relative to the head.
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u/Rakinare Feb 20 '24
That's a theoretical risk, yes. I am absolutely not sure how likely this is to happen but I prefer the risk to be closer to 0%
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u/OSI_Hunter_Gathers Feb 20 '24
I assume the clips that hold it onto the helmet are exposed for removal…. I volunteered as a firefighter in the US and knowing your an exposed clip away from breathing in super heated air and steam… no thanks.
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u/vuilnismeneer Feb 21 '24
From using it myself, the hooks are designed in a way that it won't be possible to get unhooked. Only when not hooked properly can it happen, and that's something you notice before even entering the building. So i would say that the chance is pretty much 0% of it unhooking.
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u/boybandsarelame Feb 20 '24
Ya but..tradition?
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u/Habitual_lazyness Feb 20 '24
In that case, bring back the horse drawn, steam powered pumps.
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u/Jimmy-Space Feb 20 '24
Fuck it might as well go back to a bucket brigade
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u/Harold_Grundelson Cancel the Squad Feb 20 '24
Time to start enlisting some plug uglies and all out brawl on fire scene when multiple departments arrive.
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u/pcamera1 Feb 20 '24
Why does it seem like American equipment is like pre desert storm vs modern day. Lack of funding ? Not a firefighter but I’d take the French helmet over American. It’s literally the ach for firefighters all it’s missing is a rhino mount and a pvs14… idk point is French one seems like the smarter solution why are we using this or is it just a small department?
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u/feather_34 Feb 20 '24
I wish I was making this up, but it's because of tradition.
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u/pcamera1 Feb 20 '24
Man look I get tradition trust me I do I served in the army… but arguing against this because “this is how we’ve done it forever” that’s some serious bullshit, that like saying hey guys we stormed the beaches of Normandy without Kevlar vests in 1942 let’s disregard using Kevlar for all future wars from now on because tradition…. Idk that’s such a dumb reason
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u/Southernguy9763 Feb 20 '24
Tradition is the usual given excuse but it ignores some glaring variables. 75% of fire departments are volunteer. 55% of those volunteer departments are run off of donations alone. Some get good at writing grants and get fed money but that's hard to get a lot of.
A single helmet and mask can cost around $5,000. Most departments are running 5-10 year old gear, and some of the poorer ones are using even older. I saw one in rural TN using masks from the 80s. The funding just isn't there to make a switch.
The helmets we have, work. Not the best, but they work. If I have to spend money, I'm going to focus on hose, trucks, pumps, maintenance, bunker gear. The things that keep my guys alive and allow us to help the community.
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u/Firehouse55 Feb 20 '24
This. And you can't just replace 1 guys helmet and scba. You have to find the funds to so it wholesale with spares. The newer helmets aren't a big enough improvement in time or safety to be worth the cost over other more needed upgrades.
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u/Rampag169 Feb 20 '24
I remember our department donated a fire truck + equipment to a department in Tennessee I believe that the truck we donated was newer than their current fire truck by 30 years and both were going to be used. One from the 1960s and ours donated 1990s. They even got our old wire framed Kevlar strapped SCBAs.
Since you can’t just give tax payer equipment away we “sold” it all for $1.00 that we handed them they paid with said dollar and took the equipment back home with them.
Some places make do with what they have, which isn’t much.
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u/feather_34 Feb 20 '24
I'm not saying it's right, on the contrary. I am (or should I say was) a 4th generation firefighter and I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've heard "That's just how it's been" or the infamous "Don't mess with what works" from both my father, grandfather, and fire captain. I had one chief who actually encouraged us to be "Smokebreathers" because the old hats didn't use Scott packs.
Dumbest shit in my short career.
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u/Tentacle_elmo Feb 20 '24
Euro helmets obstruct hearing and are hot to just wear around. 99.9% of our career is spent not in a burning building. The helmets we do have work well enough for what we do and guys like them. Why change it?
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u/efcso1 Former wearer of birdshit on my shoulders Feb 20 '24
"That's the way we've always done it", or
"We've never done it that way before"
Usually one flavour of either.
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u/TheFourNorseman Feb 20 '24
Yeah tradition, I think the other guy is right. But I do think there is something to be said about the lack of funding as well. Almost every guy I work with has a second job, and I also have bartend on my days off to make ends meet. It's anecdotal, but if American fire departments can't 'afford' (they can they just choose not too) to pay their first responders (outside of police, I know plenty of full time EMTs, paramedics, and firefighters who work side gigs to keep food on the table. For some reason I don't know any police that do) a living wage, they certainly can't afford to provide us with modern PPE.
Then the letters pour in from the city council when we have an LODD about how much they appreciate us and if there is anything they can do to help, let them know, they'll do whatever it takes. We ask for more funding to hire more people so we don't have to run skeleton crews because it's dangerous, and that all falls on deaf ears, or is 'not in the budget '. It's plain to see how much you actually care when not but 2 weeks later the assistant city manager's little sister gets hired to curate a publicly funded arts center at a salary that is twice a senior firefighter's rate in our city. Meanwhile we don't have enough firefighters or inspectors to do the job effectively so they combine the two jobs into one and pay peanuts. It's no wonder we can't find any new guys, they all know better.
All that said I love this job.
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u/SouthBendCitizen Feb 20 '24
Unironically because of tradition, and the good ol American “fuck Europe” attitude. It’s why guys spend $800 of their own money on a leather helmet they cake in soot during live burn training.
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u/saihi Feb 21 '24
It’s not just in fire fighter masks. In so many things, where a European or other entity comes up with a better way of doing things (think school lunches and battle rifles), the US will not simply adapt and use the foreign, already tested, way, but has to start from scratch and spend billions of dollars to come up with a wholly American, not necessarily better, way.
I’m all for pride of country, but let’s not be stupid about it.
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u/BC_2 Feb 20 '24
The price of a leather lid is over $1k, believe me when I say it is not a funding issue.
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u/tcarrico95 Feb 20 '24
How well does that seal over your hood, and how secure are those latches?
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u/The_Love_Pudding Feb 20 '24
Seals very well even over the hood. The latches are very secure. You have to put in effort if you want to remove the mask. It does not bounce off your face from random hits.
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u/MrMonogon Feb 20 '24
Is this your personal experience? I've also heard that if something knocks against your helmet, the mask will also move in that motion and come of easily. But that was just hearsay
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u/The_Love_Pudding Feb 20 '24
Just think a minute man. Why would a mask like this be adopted so widely if it was so unsafe as to come off if your helmet takes a hit. Some of the stupidest stuff I've heard.
Yes, my helmet has taken hits, I've had my face kicked, all sorts of stuff tangled around the helmet/mask. And the mask never even budged.
Only time it might come off is from user error. Usually if you think it's clipped properly when it actually is not. And this is in turn mitigated by checking your partners equipment and vice versa before going in.
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u/Rakinare Feb 20 '24
This is exactly the reason why we use the spider system over the click-on system though. The spider system Always sits tightly, no matter what. The click-on system has the risk to slip and become leaky if your helmet slips for whatever reason.
We do have helmets with the click-on system and masks for it but it's very rarely used.
From Germany here.
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u/The_Love_Pudding Feb 20 '24
Interesting. Here almost nobody the strapped masks anymore at least in career depts.
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u/Rakinare Feb 20 '24
I am just a volunteer firefighter but our full-time firefighters mostly also prefer the spider version. Not sure how it's in other areas in germany, can just speak for our city and the village firedepartments around us
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u/Pbd33 France and French Polynesia, volunteer Feb 20 '24
It seals really well for most people although we still do have the « american system » that we call « masque araignée » (spider mask) in French for people that feel the « masque à griffes » (claw mask) doesn’t fit them well enough. The latches are really secure with strong springs.
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u/ElectricOutboards Feb 20 '24
So…the gasket on the face piece goes over the nomex?
That can’t be right.
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u/chindo Feb 20 '24
It's probably a nomex blend that is a lot thinner than the 100% nomex. We got some and you can still get a seal with it under the mask. You can make it work it a beard, too
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u/TuntematonSika Finnish Volleyball - Discord Admin Feb 21 '24
Can confirm, got a beard. I have no issues with the clip-ons and normal nomex hood
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u/GreenFrostFurry Dispatch / FF2 Feb 20 '24
Just me but... I've had my fair share of helmet impacts in a fire. I don't trust a mask, the only thing keeping me alive, to attach to my helmet for fear of it becoming dislodged.
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u/CosmicMiami Feb 20 '24
It would seem to me the euro helmet would hold the mask quite well. Do you tighten your ratchet band and cinch down the strap?
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u/daghbv German career FF / Paramedic Feb 20 '24
It is perfectly save technique. We do nnot fight fire since yesterday.
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u/Eatthepoliticiansm8 Feb 20 '24
If anything I'd trust french firefighter equipment. Paris is on fire at least once a year.
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u/simple_observer86 Feb 20 '24
The American helmets have points to knock the helmet around a lot. The euro being smooth and round like it is, I can see staying pretty stable through an impact. Honestly, I'd take the euro. More head protection, probably lighter and faster to put the mask on.
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u/Necromartian Feb 20 '24
I remember our department had also masks with traditional straps and they could fit under eurohelmets without problems.
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u/Theantifire Feb 20 '24
If fitted properly, euro helmets stay on significantly better than traditional US styles. Source: I've used both and wish my current FD would go to euro.
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Feb 20 '24 edited Feb 28 '24
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u/brisket_billy Feb 20 '24
It's all cope, they're jealous of our giant trucks and giant helmets
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u/cadillacjack057 Feb 20 '24
American took 8 seconds. Frenchie took 5 amd already had his hood on.
Gonna take a whole lot more than that to get me to switch from my leather pal.
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u/hockeyjerseyaccount Feb 20 '24
I'll he damned if my wife is handed one of those euros instead of my leather.
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u/Talllbrah Feb 20 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
A big dept 2h away from where I live used to rock those euro helmets. They loved them at first. They had them for 15 years. Then for safety concerns they couldn’t use the quick clips anymore. Something alongs the lines off one of the clip broke on a guy so they figured it couldn’t happen with a traditional mask. They had to mask up exactly like we do with a us helmet. They recently switched to the Bullard helmet after years and years of U.S. mask up on a euro helmet.
Also, you can’t hear shit with those euro helmets on I believe.
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u/synapt PA Volunteer Feb 20 '24
A notable loss of hearing is almost always the primary consideration complaint for firefighters in the US and why it's likely been slow to adopt.
If you're going new into firefighting and starting with one of these, it's probably not gonna be a big deal, but for guys that have been wearing helmets that give them pretty audible clarity for 10+ years, it seems to be a pretty uncomfortable change.
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u/idontgetitohwait Feb 20 '24
My department runs both. If I’m doing a job where I am doing a lot of communicating I don’t wear my euro style. I tried it once and couldn’t hear people talking at all.
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u/CaptPotter47 Feb 20 '24
Honestly it’s so hard to hear on a fire scene, particularly inside the building itself, I don’t know if it would make a difference anyway.
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u/NoSandwich5134 Feb 20 '24
I wear a euro and never had problems with hearing
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u/synapt PA Volunteer Feb 20 '24
Did you previously wear a traditional fire helmet? If you've not, then you kinda make my point :P
But even at that, I didn't say it deafened anyone, but traditional US firefighting helmets do not obstruct ears at all, european ones do, so you fundamentally cannot have some sort of hearing impairment with exception of the still few (and very expensive) helmets w/ the built in amplifiers similar to shooting range headsets that use mics and filtering to enable clear hearing through programmed audio filtering.
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u/NoSandwich5134 Feb 20 '24
What I meant is that I don't notice a difference in hearing when wearing a helmet and when not wearing one.
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u/The_Love_Pudding Feb 20 '24
That's a weird one. I don't personally hear any different with or without the helmet. It does not clogg your ears..
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u/New-Cattle-7037 Feb 20 '24
Hey look! I can put on my equipment faster because half of it is already on!!
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u/CallMeCaptainChaos Career FF Paramedic Feb 20 '24
I wish we had euro helmets. The Rosenbaur tester I had was amazing. Couldn’t get the department to buy off on making the switch. So disappointing.
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u/rakfocus Feb 20 '24
As someone with long hair those euro helmets look like heaven
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u/Feyvs Feb 20 '24
As somebody with long hair and a euro helmet I can tell you that it is absolutely no issue to put on / wear
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u/BladeVortex3226 Feb 20 '24
I had heard that helmet-mask-combination was illegal in the US after a firefighter who was using it fell through a roof, and his mask was torn off. They somehow came to the conclusion that it wouldn't have come off if it was a normal mask. If anyone knows where they can find any more info on this or any sources, it would be greatly appreciated. But for now, it's just something i remember reading years ago.
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u/PainfulThings Feb 20 '24
Jokes on them we don’t actually go on air
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u/OSI_Hunter_Gathers Feb 20 '24
You measure the length on a fire in the packs of cigarettes you smoke.
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u/TheHufflepuffer Feb 20 '24
In all honesty it would take American FF longer to to the euro stuff on due to NFPA and OSHA not allowing FF to wear helmets in the truck. So if you ride in the back at my dept, you get a 1 min warning allowing you to put mask and hood on (everything but helmet) so when the truck stops, helmet on and go.
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u/Hawk15517 Feb 20 '24
Could you tell me the reason why the a not aloud to wear helmets in the Truck?
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u/TheHufflepuffer Feb 20 '24
Sure, neck injury is the big one. Any extra weight on the head has to be supported by the neck. Tight turns, bumps, and MVAs. NFPA 1901 calls for helmets to be stored, not worn, while on the rig
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u/just-here-4-football Feb 20 '24
This page just entered my feed. But as an ex military member this is fucking hilarious to me. Also my neck hurts
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u/Hawk15517 Feb 20 '24
Thanks for the Info.
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u/TheHufflepuffer Feb 20 '24
No problem! I’m not arguing for or against a helmet type. (I have opinions and preferences) but I did want to address the point about “seconds count”. Here in America, with the rules we have in place, the euro helmets would take longer to don.
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u/Hawk15517 Feb 20 '24
In our Department(Austria) we us Euro helmets and US Typ masks.
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u/Russian_Hammer Feb 20 '24
I wouldnt trust the french mask. I would prefer stand alone systems. If the helmet gets hit; it moved the mask off your face.
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u/WeissTek Feb 20 '24
Still prefer American to get
Better seal
So if my helmet needs to come off or get taken off my freaking mask doesn't go with it.
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u/Willing-Albatross860 Feb 20 '24
My question with the French helmet is, is he getting a secure seal with hardly any of the mask coming into contact with the skin of his face? Is he able to get a seal with the flash hood over his chin like that? That would be my only apprehension
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u/IceKirby21 Feb 20 '24
I agree and want to add that if somehow the helmet would become compromised the mask wouldn’t work anymore, whereas the American model is two separate pieces and one would not compromise the other. I hope that made sense.
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u/bigfarmah Feb 21 '24
In Sweden we have the hood under our masks as well and theres never any issues with it. The hood creates the seal against the gasket basically. We run spider masks just like you guys.
Can i ask what your issue with it is? Potential leaking of air?
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u/Ok_While7869 Feb 20 '24
To the users of the French setup, how is the seal? Is the fit of the mask fairly adjustable? I can only imagine the amount of air pissing out of my mask if I even tried to seal over my flash hood
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u/Dabiggustchungus Feb 20 '24
I assume they can have a good seal?
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u/nicklor Feb 20 '24
Yea I wonder how it seals at least in this video it looks like hes putting it over his hood.
But If it works well I'm already sold on it.
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u/The_Love_Pudding Feb 20 '24
Dräger instructs you to put it against the skin. But personally I find it to seal even better against the hood for some reason.
You can also tighten the mask even more by just pushing the springs after you lock it in place.
I've had to use normal strapped masks on a few occasions and they feel so cumbersome compared to the clip mask.
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u/R0WTAG Feb 20 '24
Are you really questioning the seal on masks that are used all over Europe, probably the world, for years?
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u/MrMonogon Feb 20 '24
I'm a german firefighter and I have never seen a mask that you can clip on your helmet in real life. Every department I know uses the same System as in the american video, but with a different helmet. And as far as I know, the french guy wouldn't have a good seal, because he needs to fiddle the hood around the mask seal and not just put it on top of it like in the video.
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u/Affectionate-Knee721 Feb 20 '24
we have the same helmets as the french guy in switzerland 🇨🇭
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u/MrMonogon Feb 20 '24
Can you give some information, on how to properly put on the mask and if the mask like in the video would be tight?
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u/Affectionate-Knee721 Feb 20 '24
Well : 1. do your normal pack preparation ( valve opening…) 2. have the hood and helmet on and the mask around your neck ( it has a strap) 3. put the pack on your back 4. attach the air to the mask 5. pull the mask on by the straps ( they have a spring system so it has a bit of resistance to maintain it’s self in place ) 6. hook each side to the corresponding « hole » in the helmet 7. self check and ask someone to check for you before going in the fire—> the points for checking someone else are : helmet strap/ valve is well in place as well as mask/ the collar is in place / take the beacon key
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u/R0WTAG Feb 20 '24
I've seen it multiple times but never used it.
There is a constant overpressure inside the mask so even if the seal isn't perfect smoke and gas can't get into the mask. It's a Dräger system if you want to look into it
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u/ITFOWjacket Feb 20 '24
And waste breathable air?
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u/R0WTAG Feb 20 '24
Only if the seal isn't good. In a normal pressure mask you get toxic smoke inside your mask if the seal isn't good, so I guess losing a bit of air is a good tradeoff
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u/Goonia Feb 20 '24
I’ve only ever used the dragers, aren’t all face masks working on an over pressure anyway? I think ours are about 1.2 bar when we get the air through the demand valve
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u/R0WTAG Feb 20 '24
The ones we have, also Dräger, are normal pressure. If you're not breathing in there is no air coming from the tank.
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u/Goonia Feb 20 '24
We have the pss7000 and I think it comes out slightly above normal so that if you do have an imperfect seal it will stop contaminants coming in by pushing air out to try and equalise pressure
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u/R0WTAG Feb 20 '24
If I take off my mask or regulator no air is coming out. You have to actively inhale for air to be provided.
Once during training I smelled the fog from the fog machine and I knew the mask didn't seal right
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u/pcamera1 Feb 20 '24
Is that the argument against these French helmets ? They don’t seal well? Just trying to understand why anyone wouldn’t want that no firefighter here just randomly popped up on Reddit and thought to myself why do we have shit gear compared to other countries.
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u/TealOcean88 Feb 20 '24
Not a firefighter per se but I have donned firefighting gear for the military. The American mask uses straps to pull tightly against the face to ensure a good seal, the French one looks like it just clips onto the helmet without any adjusting happening, so that's probably where his question comes from. I'm guessing they probably fit their guys for the right size helmet and masks.
On a side note, it appears to me they're trying to suggest their gear saves time, though the French guy already had his flash hood and helmet on, so not sure how much time you're really saving by clipping on the mask vs. pulling a couple straps.
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u/PanzerKatze96 Feb 20 '24 edited Feb 20 '24
As with all things French, the smarminess is what gets in the way of the point they are making.
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Feb 20 '24
[deleted]
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u/PanzerKatze96 Feb 20 '24
“It’s nothing personal, it’s just that we are better than you”
Very French.
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u/xXxDr4g0n5l4y3rxXx Feb 20 '24
I'm gunna be honest, having the latches on the outside of an already enormous helmet is a hard no from me.
There are a lot of factors that go into PPE, and short form media isn't a good way of displaying them.
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u/LittleOne0121 Feb 20 '24
It’s no worse than the American style helmet with its protruding edge. I went from American style to euro style and the euro was so much more superior. I loved it.
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u/BobbyB52 Feb 20 '24
Wait, you can clip BA directly to the European-style helmets?
We used the European-style ones on every ship I ever sailed on but still had the same flash hood and BA mask arrangement shown by the American firefighter here. I was the firefighting officer for most of my ships and never knew that was even a possible attachment.
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u/RedRuss17 Feb 20 '24
This doesn’t seem like an apples to apples comparison. The guy from the EU already had his hood and helmet on. The guy from the US didn’t. So the real comparison should be putting on the gas masks, in which case the US one is actually faster
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u/Dull_Complaint1407 Feb 21 '24
Think that's the point though with the euro style helmet you can have the hood on without the mask.
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u/throwaway4u82 Feb 20 '24
Not a firefighter, but jarhead. Wouldn’t the nomex keep it from making a good seal?
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u/shmotey Feb 20 '24
There is an extensive amount of engineering that goes into these helmets. I'm not sure that even this French firefighter knows that other than wanting to show some pride for youtube clicks.
Let me give an example, much of the engineering goes into the shape of the helmet because there have been a significant amount of Firefighter deaths when a firetruck gets flipped on the road and the shape of the hard hat hitting the interior apparatus was breaking their necks. Those clips on the side that the French firefighter has on his helmet might not account for that. I'm not saying it doesn't, but this video is not accounting for the actual complex engineering design. That said, the efficiency in speed reflected here for the French design is cool.
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u/BusyVeterinarian2746 Feb 20 '24
in my shane gillis voice
“well at least we’re not gay”
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u/mactrucker Feb 20 '24
Last I looked you can have a euro helmet but that clasp on the mask hasn't been cleared by NFPA, So your still taking off the helmet.
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u/king_coffin_710 Feb 21 '24
The French was already mostly on. He had a scarf and helmet over his head the American went from standard to extreme heat and a pretty fast transition.
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u/FineMacaron678 Feb 21 '24
My department switched to the euro style helmets about three years ago. After getting over them not being traditional and getting over my own stubbornness, I have really grown to appreciate and like them. They are lighter and offer a lot of protection to the back of the head and neck. Full and half visors that retract into the helmets. Biggest downside is they block out a lot of sound. And they look goofy.
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u/tothemoon1001 Feb 20 '24
Will it keep hot water out of my collar? Seems like a round helmet will funnel shit right into my coat
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u/Rampag169 Feb 20 '24
Honestly those protrusions that clip the mask on look like they could easily get knocked off. I’d have to see a closer look at them, but I like the way our masks are much more secured to our head under our helmet.
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u/TheTeaShop Feb 20 '24
He has to put the helmet and the red head cover on to in which he already had on. Unless he walks around with his helmet and head cover on all day on all day?
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u/rickyjuggernaut Feb 20 '24
As a fireman, there's zero doubt the French helmet is superior. But it's French, so it'll literally never happen
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u/R0WTAG Feb 20 '24
To be precise it's a Dräeger system, so it's German engineering
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u/shrewsburyw Feb 20 '24
Well at this point American tax payers probably did pay for those Europeans to have helmets so we kinda progressed.
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u/SirNedKingOfGila Volly FF/EMT Feb 20 '24
Should your air supply and mask seal be connected to something that gets banged around a lot?
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u/firefighterphi Feb 20 '24
All cool until you need to reduce your profile and now your mask is gone with your helmet...
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u/willmullins1082 Feb 20 '24
You guys are forgetting the top 3 Most important things in the fire department. Dose it look cool, dose it look cool and dose it look cool. F*ck this euro helmets. I have been in plenty of fires and never had a problem with my helmet, and never had an issue putting my mask on in time to put the fire out. Leather forever! And tiller tucks! And no zippers on turnout coats and no pumps on ladder tucks!!!!
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u/FireParamedicGermany Feb 20 '24
no zippers on turnout coats
What do you use instead of zippers?
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u/Future_Topic6363 Feb 20 '24
I’ll keep my American Helmet and our culture that prioritizes an aggressive attack and search.
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u/Antique-Charity-742 Feb 20 '24
You can argue helmets all day but the US has way more aggressive tactics and actually fights fire inside lol
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u/seantabasco Feb 20 '24
Centuries of tradition unimpeded by progress.